I strongly disagree, and I think this erroneous conclusion is a consequence of conflating logic with causation.If we then define free will as the ability to consciously influence the outcome of reality, determinism necessarily precludes it. — ho ching leung
This matters because you are one of the Ci: you were caused, but you nevertheless are a causal agent - and a complex one at that. What are you? You are the sum total of your initial physical state (the DNA that comprised the zygote from which you emerged), and the various changes to yourself as a result of living. Collectively, these result in you having feelings, conditioned responses, desires, urges, knowledge...etc. These are the things that went into making you who, and what, you are today, and your unique combination of these things are what "determine" the choices you will make. But since they are YOU, it is still YOU that is making the choice. A different YOU would make a different choice, so you are a critically important part of the causal chain. Without you being who and what you are, the future causal chain (your output) would be different. — Relativist
Freedom and Determinism — ho ching leung
Without you being who and what you are, the future causal chain (your output) would be different. — Relativist
OP Part 1
There is a group of issues that I’ve been wrestling with lately. They are ones that come up a lot on the Forum. Specific issues include determinism, predictability, probability, reductionism, emergence, free-will, causation, chaos theory. I don’t want to retread all the recent threads, so I’ll focus on a fairly specific issue. How is determinism different from predictability. — T Clark
Bear in mind that although your factors were the product of determination, this does not imply you were designed to make the choices you make. — Relativist
i suppose the better way of expressing this would be to conceptualise the entire universe as an aggregate of predetermined factors, "me" being a particular bunch of such factors. Would it be a little easier to see how "living" (in the universe) then does not absolve "me" of the grasp of determinism? — ho ching leung
However, we continue to make ‘choices’ in the less metaphysical realm and in daily life. How is this possible, you ask? This is because I fundamentally believe the notion of a ‘choice’ is tied to memory, in ignorance of the concept of determinism. Without knowledge of the fact that our actions are pre-determined, we refer retrospectively to our actions as ‘choices’ – and inherent human tendency to extrapolate past possibility to future possibility leads us to believe that since, with a cursory glance over the shoulder, we have made such ‘choices’, that ‘choices’ can be made consciously by ‘will’ in the future, rather than exist only as an essentially retrospective concept. — ho ching leung
Are alternatives even logically possible if there is libertarian free will? Reflect on some important decision you made. There are reasons you came to that decision, reasons that you identified during your deliberation. Does it make sense to think that you could have deliberated to that set of reasons, and then made a different decision? Of course not. Those reasons determined your decision. The same process applies to the deliberation that led you to develop each of those individual reasons. A different decision could only have occurred if you had some different thoughts or beliefs. This is true irrespective of whether our wills are libertarian.I'm just not sure that I can agree that it follows from the fact that my factors were predetermined, that there is an "alternative" to the choices that I have and am making. — ho ching leung
If we then define free will as the ability to consciously influence the outcome of reality, determinism necessarily precludes it. — ho ching leung
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