The burden of proof is not "hold no positions until there is sufficient evidence of them" but "hold no positions that there is sufficient evidence against". — Pfhorrest
Nonsense. — Hanover
Why do you hold a position that there's insufficient evidence of? — Hanover
You do not understand the burden of proof sir. — DingoJones
you don't need evidence to have an opinion in the first place — Pfhorrest
The effort wouldn't be commensurate with my investment in the topic. — Echarmion
Your position is that slavery has caused modern day whites to be disproportionately privileged, yet you acknowledge you have no proof of that and can cite nothing in support of that. — Hanover
Next time just save us the time and tell us you have a baseless opinion that you're too busy to confirm or deny. — Hanover
So is it wrong to shame people, or for people to be ashamed, for being born a particular color or not? Would you agree that shaming one group to bring up another is wrong?Whatever happened to the idea that ad-hominem is not an acceptable argument? — Echarmion
I think privilege describes (aims to describe) a socio-economic state of affairs. — Echarmion
Privilege doesn't have to do with ethics. Privilege has to do with advantages that someone has--the idea is that it makes it easier for them to get and keep a job, earn more money in that job, rent and buy real estate, deal with the police, etc.
"That this group has privileges that that group doesn't have is wrong" would be an ethical stance. — Terrapin Station
Did none of you read the rest of my post?Privileges are given, bestowed, passed from one person to another. We are not born with them. That's the main issue with “white privilege”: the act of bestowing “privilege” on another is a result of the bestower, not the one receiving the privileges. So not only do they leave out the privilege-giver, but blame the receiver for being given them. — NOS4A2
Exactly. My wife has been teaching for over 20 years and teachers and their families know all to well how parenting has a huge impact on the social behaviors of their children.Hear, hear! And those who are fortunate enough to have good parenting seem to be more able to rise above less-than-ideal circumstances because they were brought up to believe that they could achieve anything. I teach quite a few students who come from the underclass (rural and inner city poverty) and it's pretty easy to tell what kind of parenting they've had. — uncanni
Why are we pointing this out? Does this prove your case somehow that slavery has caused white privilege? — Hanover
You do not understand the burden of proof sir.
I know what you are saying seems a reasonable standard but its not, it is burdened by a myriad of absurd and ridiculous claims/beliefs that get smuggled in with any good ones that pass the standard.
You DO need to have evidence for your own opinions/beliefs in order to be justified in them, even if its just evidence only you have access too. You should NOT hold opinions/beliefs without evidence, whether you can present it to others or not. — DingoJones
First, what is privilege for one, which is to say what is good for one, may not be good for another. There are many people who don't see material pleasures as a privilege. They can be a crutch. It depends on how you look at life and how you're raised.
The problem you are complaining about is everywhere majorities and minorities exist, across the globe. How can you enforce people from choosing mostly whites for a job when mostly whites are available for the job? How can you force people to "choose" who they associate with? — Harry Hindu
Ok, so we agree that privileges exist. So what? How is that helpful? What do you want to do with this information that privileges exist? Should others ought to have privileges? Isn't that an ethical question?I wasn't endorsing the idea, by the way. I was just saying that it's not an ethical idea. As I said, "Privilege has to do with advantages that someone has--the idea is that it makes it easier for them to get and keep a job, earn more money in that job, rent and buy real estate, deal with the police, etc."
If someone doesn't want to get or keep a job, earn more money rather than less at a job, etc., that's fine. Nevertheless the idea of privilege is that it's easier to get and keep a job, earn more money at that job, etc. That's not an ethical idea. — Terrapin Station
Ok, so we agree that privileges exist. — Harry Hindu
Well, if privileges don't exist for you then no wonder you don't see it as an ethical issue. It seems to me that you're admitting that privileges are subjective. Some admit they exist or not to some degree or another.I'm not even agreeing with that, really, especially not privileges that are at all due to "race." (I'm putting "race" in quotation marks because I believe it's a bogus concept to begin with.) — Terrapin Station
Well, if privileges don't exist for you then no wonder you don't see it as an ethical issue. It seems to me that you're admitting that privileges are subjective. Some admit they exist or not to some degree or another. — Harry Hindu
(a) without critically looking at the many data collection/reporting issues that can make the statistics unreliable, misrepresentative, or even make crucial data unobtainable,
(b) while making very dubious assumptions about connections between different statistics,
(c) while making very dubious assumptions about causes/motivations of anything behind the statistics. — Terrapin Station
There weren't slaves in the US 60 years ago.
The claim was that it's connected to slavery. — Terrapin Station
You're taking the claim unreasonably literally. — Echarmion
. For one, racial segregation was an outgrowth of slavery,
— Echarmion — frank
It wasnt a simple outgrowth from slavery. — frank
It was an outgrowth of anxiety associated with the 1890's economic depression coupled with the failure of southern progressives, socialists, and communists to deliver support to the poverty stricken, leading to the rise of southern demagogues who resorted to race baiting, which led to a violent take-over by white supremacists who passed laws to reduce black votership from 50-70% to 3%. — frank
which led to a violent take-over by white supremacists who passed laws to reduce black votership from 50-70% to 3%. — frank
If the rest if the US had given a fuck while the South descended into fascism, Jim Crow wouldnt have happened. — frank
Surely, slavery and racism are more significant causes of racial segregation than anything you mentioned here. You state the above like racism didn't exist until the 1890s. — ZhouBoTong
The southern fascism you refer to only hurt black people. Does that give a hint as to why the rest of the country did not care? — ZhouBoTong
Prior to the Civil War, most Americans were racist and made no effort to hide it. — ZhouBoTong
I won't commit to the belief that the privileged are incapable of knowing what is fair or not due to their fear of losing their privilege, which means I must accept their complaints of oppression as I would any other. — Hanover
Prior to the Civil War, most Americans were racist and made no effort to hide it.
— ZhouBoTong
How are we establishing that, exactly?
(I just quoted that because it was the first thing there's an issue with.) — Terrapin Station
I am willing to go through many specific examples of evidence, like say, the 3/5 compromise, if really necessary. I am actually a bit confused by your doubts. Why do you think most Americans were NOT racist prior to the Civil War? — ZhouBoTong
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