• FranckFriends
    8
    I'll be reaching my 50s very soon and what currently bothers me the most is the fact that I'm constantly under the impression that, as quite a very maniac observer/listener, I've gathered so much practical knowledge about the human behavior that nobody can surprise me anymore.
    I find interacting with humans totally boring to put it bluntly.
    I even had to spend time with mentally ill people to get some "fresh air" but even that isn't enough anymore.
    I understand that human society shapes us to become highly predictable mainly for its own security as it avoids violence and chaos ... but I digress anyway.

    Honestly, I would like to think that I'm just deluded, that my "I know it all" feeling is just a mere illusion.
    How can I confirm it's an illusion and not me really knowing all the things I'm supposed to know to interact with humans?

    Have philosophers of the past and present something to say about it?

    Thank you.
  • Shawn
    11.2k
    Have philosophers of the past and present something to say about it?FranckFriends

    Nietzsche is the first guy that comes to my mind.


    I feel as though you might be right, but how do you account for creativity?
  • Son of a Bitch
    2.6k
    I knew a guy in high school who said that people were so predictable. He was a manipulative psychopath.
  • Drek
    93
    I don't know many philosophers off hand (still in college and just beginning to read anything of substance on my own), but in my limited experience people fit into nice little boxes sometimes and it's hard not to stereotype when a lot of people WANT to fit stereotypes. Maybe your just another human behavior and not realIy unique? I blame the culture (easy enough :smile: ). I know I know we are each our own individuals, but when a lot of people want to conform and have similar basic human desires I can see your sentiment. I hope I am doing my job of being unique.

    It's kinda gang land far as I can tell... it's which group do you subscribe to then conform to it(F*** you high school). Not what do you stand for and if it is they are pre-packaged. At least on surface level. Adult life is much much better, until corporate gets a hold of you.

    How do you account for creativity?
    The ones who buck the enculturation and guide their own sails by rising to, then above their own culture. Read Beyond the American Dream by Charles D. Hayes.

    Someone told me what do you wear... I said Jeans and a T-shirt... "No what on the T-shirt and Jeans"... I had to wonder what difference it made.
  • FranckFriends
    8

    but how do you account for creativity? — Wallows

    As a professional designer myself, I view creativity as a way to build many different things.

    You could obviously apply creativity to your everyday's behavior but then you'd just end up being an eccentric ... which aren't well accepted by the human society because of the need for predictability I've described above.

    Also, creativity is mostly based on others work.
    So even a creative behavior would barely surprise me as it would be a patchwork of existing ones.
  • FranckFriends
    8

    I knew a guy in high school who said that people were so predictable. He was a manipulative psychopath.
    Obviously, someone who has a deep understanding of the human behavior has the ability to use this knowledge to his advantage. Some choose not to do it other choose to ... which makes them become unfairly labeled as psychopaths I suppose. ( I assume you know the real meaning of the word "psychopath" which suppose violent/abusive behavior).
  • FranckFriends
    8

    Nietzsche is the first guy that comes to my mind.
    Can you share any of his contribution related to this topic?
  • Son of a Bitch
    2.6k
    There are also what are called “industrial psychopaths”. They are not violent.
  • FranckFriends
    8

    There are also what are called “industrial psychopaths”.
    I don't want to drive the discussion to a very different topic but, by this logic, if you look close enough at every single human being, you'll find a certain level of psychopathy. I've met people with mental illness that I'd trust more than my banker if you know what I mean.
  • Son of a Bitch
    2.6k
    Most mental illnesses are not personality disorders. The mark of psychopathy is a lack of a conscience. Most people I associate with have one. When I find someone who doesn’t and thinks this is a common trait, I avoid them. Good bye.
  • Shawn
    11.2k
    Can you share any of his contribution related to this topic?FranckFriends

    I'm no expert on Nietzsche; but, he talks about what you mention in your OP about people being submissive to traditions and customs or more specifically a form of dogmatism in behavior. Zarathustra would be the antithesis of the kind of people you described.
  • Shawn
    11.2k
    Somewhat tangent quotes from Wikipedia's quote page on Nietzsche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra:

    Ich sage euch: man muß noch Chaos in sich haben, um einen tanzenden Stern gebären zu können.
    I tell you: one must still have chaos within oneself, to give birth to a dancing star.
    Prologue 5.
    Kein Hirt und Eine Heerde! Jeder will das Gleiche, Jeder ist gleich: wer anders fühlt, geht freiwillig in's Irrenhaus.
    No shepherd, and one herd! Everyone wants the same, everyone is the same: whoever feels different goes wilingly into the madhouse.
  • Emmanuele
    20


    Well why think it's an illusion? The way I see it you're justifying something that seems to be sense as something else to adhere to your belief that we're unique.

    Have you ever heard of game theory? Game theory involves two intelligent players going by their will to have the best of their own position. The outcome always involves each of the players going by their own best interests. Sounds familiar? It's every day.
  • BrianW
    994


    It seems you've become aware of the common part of people's activities in our human association. That's good but there's more to us than that. For example, what about you? Are you as boring as other people?
    If people are boring because there's nothing new to learn from them, then, either you have hit the proverbial wall in terms of learning about yourself or are too self-conceited to see beyond your ignorance. That's because we can only recognise in others what we have recognised in ourselves first. So, if there's nothing to learn from others, it would imply there's nothing to learn from yourself. That, in itself, is self-delusion.
  • BrianW
    994
    Have philosophers of the past and present something to say about it?FranckFriends

    I would advise you to read "Beelzebub's tales to his grandson" (by G.I. Gurdjieff).
    It is somewhat of a spiritual book but it shows life to have a level of intelligence and deliberateness that makes anyone question their own understanding.
  • BrianW
    994
    Have philosophers of the past and present something to say about it?FranckFriends

    Or you can read "The Prophet" (by Kahlil Gibran) for some very elevated thoughts.

    Perhaps instead of looking at the average person, you could try to look into the minds, hearts and possibly lives of the more accomplished people our human heritage has had the pleasure of nurturing.
  • Jake
    1.4k
    I'll be reaching my 50s very soon and what currently bothers me the most is the fact that I'm constantly under the impression that, as quite a very maniac observer/listener, I've gathered so much practical knowledge about the human behavior that nobody can surprise me anymore.FranckFriends

    I can relate to this. I agree, we humans are highly predictable. We're almost totally obsessed with the story we have about ourselves, ie. our egos. And we are very skilled at trying to hide this obsession, from ourselves as well, under layers of cover story.

    On one hand this predictability can be useful. As example, if you just listen more than you talk, use self deprecating humor, and support whatever story someone is trying to sell you about themselves, you'll be quite popular. And being popular comes with many benefits. It's all very simple really. But not so easy, because we suffer from the same self obsession as everyone else.

    On the other hand the predictability can feel very stifling to creative people. For a creative person the predictability of human behavior can be very boring. For a sensitive alert person it gets even worse, because you can see through the cover story to the ego obsession being concealed below the cover story.

    The best I can suggest here, not that I'm at all expert at it, is a sense of compassion. We're all basically 4 year olds trapped for decades in these adult bodies. And just as I'm bored with you, you are bored with me, we're all in this together.

    The other solution is the realization that human beings need not be the center of our universe. There's a lot more than us going on in the world. As example, one of my best friends is a retarded squirrel who has been living in a cage at the top of the stairs here for years now. He has not the slightest idea what's going on, but he's sweet, pure, innocent, uncontaminated by the world, which makes him more interesting than most people.

    But anyway, we're all going to be dead so much sooner than we realize, so it's probably wise to just go with the flow with a sense of humor, and not worry about any of this too much. It'll all be over before we know it.
  • FranckFriends
    8
    Well why think it's an illusion? The way I see it you're justifying something that seems to be sense as something else to adhere to your belief that we're unique.Emmanuele

    My personal observations convinced me that people aren't unique and even that free will is kind of a myth. As it's quite a depressing conclusion, and as I despise blind beliefs, I wanted to make sure that I hadn't overlook anything that might prove the contrary.

    Have you ever heard of game theory? Game theory involves two intelligent players going by their will to have the best of their own position. The outcome always involves each of the players going by their own best interests. Sounds familiar? It's every day.Emmanuele

    No but I've understood very early that everything people do is for their own interest. Even the most compassionate people act this way in order to fulfill their need to do good.
  • FranckFriends
    8
    The best I can suggest here, not that I'm at all expert at it, is a sense of compassion. We're all basically 4 year olds trapped for decades in these adult bodies. And just as I'm bored with you, you are bored with me, we're all in this together.

    The other solution is the realization that human beings need not be the center of our universe. There's a lot more than us going on in the world. As example, one of my best friends is a retarded squirrel who has been living in a cage at the top of the stairs here for years now. He has not the slightest idea what's going on, but he's sweet, pure, innocent, uncontaminated by the world, which makes him more interesting than most people.

    But anyway, we're all going to be dead so much sooner than we realize, so it's probably wise to just go with the flow with a sense of humor, and not worry about any of this too much. It'll all be over before we know it.
    Jake

    That's where I have great difficulties.
    I would like to enjoy my remaining time on earth as much as possible but it's way too hard to ignore the true reality of it all. Becoming some kind of hermit would solve the problem but unfortunately I need to have human beings around me even if I'm utterly tired of them and their nonsense.
  • TheMadFool
    9.9k
    Deer are predictable. They'll eat grass and run if startled.

    Are we not animals?

    What's so interesting about our predictability?
  • Emmanuele
    20
    No but I've understood very early that everything people do is for their own interest. Even the most compassionate people act this way in order to fulfill their need to do good.FranckFriends

    Exactly. To that you can attribute your boredome. Everyone and everything can be traced at some point. Have the cynic find the worst or the hero find honour becomes intuitive with age and observation I assume.

    You can still be a hermit by the way. You just have to let everyone close to you know that you wish to have time alone. As a man in your fifties the least they can do is respect your wish.

    People's behavior will never change. It's a very sad fact. Nobody really goes around thinking that watching TV, paying taxes and having a relationship to be particulary boring. They find reading books, discussing and analysis to be boring. Most of them out there have exactly the same beliefs with minor deviations towards exactly the same thing. It's part of being sane.

    My personal observations convinced me that people aren't unique and even that free will is kind of a myth. As it's quite a depressing conclusionFranckFriends

    Yes, it is. It makes mentally Ill individuals to be way more interesting. But I'm certain that to some level everyone is aware of this. Many TV programs are about psychopaths killing many people and getting away with it or some other drama like that. Cartoons have radical expressions, etc. It's all a primal desire for adventure and conquer.

    It's only a matter of time this desire dies as a consequence of evolution. That will be a very long time and none of us here is probably going to see such change in our lifetime.
  • Jake
    1.4k
    I would like to enjoy my remaining time on earth as much as possible but it's way too hard to ignore the true reality of it all.FranckFriends

    Well, the true reality does contain all kinds of things that aren't negative. You know, few of us wish to be friends with everybody on Earth, and instead we pick and choose to maximize our experience. So that's one path, pick and choose as wisely as we can, and then focus all of our attention of this customized subset of reality.

    Another more philosophical option is to realize that we are judging the reality to be lacking by comparing it to an idealized fantasy world of our own invention. It's asking a lot of reality to demand it compete successfully with our imaginations, and perhaps we are just being too greedy.

    Some people are blessed with an inability to imagine anything other than what is right in front of them. They accept reality as it is, because they aren't distracted by how it "should be". I often envy them, not that this especially helps.
  • Jake
    1.4k
    I find interacting with humans totally boring to put it bluntly.FranckFriends

    I suspect you are, to one degree or another, describing the situation many of us here on the forum are experiencing. Our minds are stuck on the big picture channel from birth, but most of those around us have little to no interest in looking through that lens. And so they are boring to us, and we are boring to them. If we are pressed together too closely, everyone involved can get annoyed.

    I've been happily married for 40 years to a wonderful intelligent woman who isn't at all philosophical, whereas I am almost pathologically philosophical. :smile: Our conversations have evolved in to a kind of elaborate dance of negotiation. She'll tell me about some errands she's involved in with great enthusiasm, which will inevitably spark some enthusiastic philosophical reflection on my part, which is very politely largely ignored as we return to the errand topics, which sparks more philosophical ideas in my head, and so on.

    We've learned to do this dance through long practice, probably because both of us have concluded that, bottom line, the other person is more important to us than our personal interests. And of course I can come here to this forum, and she can go to some discount coupon website to get a really good deal on her next purchase of laundry soap.

    What I've learned in my own experience is that the more philosophical one is, the more one tends to need a partnership with someone who has both feet firmly on the ground of the mundane real world.
  • FranckFriends
    8
    What I've learned in my own experience is that the more philosophical one is, the more one tends to need a partnership with someone who has both feet firmly on the ground of the mundane real world.Jake

    Same here.
    My longest relationship was with such a person.

    french-actress-arielle-dombasle-and-french-philosopher-writer-and-picture-id583456708
    French actress Arielle Dombasle and French philosopher, writer and film director Bernard-Henri Levy sit on a sofa, in the living room of their residence in Mexico.
  • Emmanuele
    20
    What I've learned in my own experience is that the more philosophical one is, the more one tends to need a partnership with someone who has both feet firmly on the ground of the mundane real world.Jake

    That is a very good affirmation. Ironically, I have met a woman similar to what you have described. She seems to pay me a lot of attention in college and my opinion about her is changing recently. Frankly, most women can fall into this category because of what I have experienced. And many of those who seem interested in me actually make it clear to me that they think I'm boreing. Indirectly of course.

    These same women seem to have a thirst for drama and emotion while my partners play by their desires. It's probably the strangest thing I've ever seen.
  • Jake
    1.4k
    And many of those who seem interested in me actually make it clear to me that they think I'm boreing. Indirectly of course.Emmanuele

    That's because we nerds are boring. Be grateful for the indirectly part and carry on. :smile:
  • Mayor of Simpleton
    627
    Have philosophers of the past and present something to say about it?FranckFriends

    Camus... The Myth of Sisyphus?
    Kierkegaard... Fear and Trembling and Either/Or?
    Ecclesiastes 1:4-11... "nothinng new under the sun"?
    Jean-Paul Sartre... Being and Nothingness?

    I'm sure there's more, but why pile on...

    Heck...

    ... even pop culture via Morty Smith:



    Meow!

    G

    btw... if you simply need an excuse, then Bojack Horseman

  • Emmanuele
    20
    That's because we nerds are boring. Be grateful for the indirectly part and carry on. :smile:Jake

    Let's remember they're the ones taking an interest in me here. Even then they let me know they're attracted to some of my sides but not all of them.
  • Not
    22
    People do seem to get bored in their 50's but by 80, they are all perked up again. Maybe forgetting that people are boring makes them exciting again?
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