• S
    7.5k
    You're funny. I've done the serious part in relation to Brexit. What you were replying to was about your spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, and spam.
  • karl stone
    430
    You're funny. I've done the serious part in relation to Brexit. What you were replying to was about your spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, and spam.S

    Perhaps there are chat forums you could use instead of trolling a philosophy forum with your inappropriately inane line of, what I presume aspires to wit?
  • S
    7.5k
    Perhaps there are chat forums you could use instead of trolling a philosophy forum with your inappropriately inane line of what I presume aspires to wit?karl stone

    I see. So it's appropriate for you to spam a philosophy forum, but it's inappropriate of me to criticise your spamming of a philosophy forum, on that same philosophy forum, in a comical manner susceptible to accusations of trolling?
  • karl stone
    430
    Let's find out. I've reported your posts as off topic. This topic doesn't need witless trolling. It's too serious. Please stop it.
  • S
    7.5k
    I agree. What it needs is more spam about David Cameron and his criminal conspiracy.

    Sorry, please continue.
  • Benkei
    1.8k
    Well it's now clear that nobody in the UK has an idea what alternative arrangements should be, which explains the vague terminology to begin with. What I seriously don't get is what motivates some to prefer no deal over the existing deal. What exactly is so bad about it that all the bad stuff of no deal is preferable? Or are there benefits to no deal like disaster capitalism and those who benefit have this much influence?
  • unenlightened
    3.1k
    We are standing at a cliff edge threatening to jump off. We are blaming the cruel world. Don't imagine there is much power in reason to influence us; we need the Samaritans, not some turbulent priest telling us we're going to hell.
  • ssu
    893
    We are standing at a cliff edge threatening to jump off. We are blaming the cruel world. Don't imagine there is much power in reason to influence us; we need the Samaritans, not some turbulent priest telling us we're going to hell.unenlightened
    You're not going to hell. What bad could happen to you?
  • unenlightened
    3.1k
    What bad could happen to you?ssu

    I dare say we will survive, but the UK is losing influence, losing money, losing jobs, losing trade. We already have gone back to folks dying of malnutrition, rising inequality, rising homelessness, a loss of human rights and political accountability, increasing crime and quite a deal of despair and desperation. Plenty more bad stuff could happen.
  • ssu
    893
    I dare say we will survive, but the UK is losing influence, losing money, losing jobs, losing trade. We already have gone back to folks dying of malnutrition, rising inequality, rising homelessness, a loss of human rights and political accountability, increasing crime and quite a deal of despair and desperation. Plenty more bad stuff could happen.unenlightened
    Are you serious?

    You know, I've thought about starting a thread on this British (or should I say English) gloominess and persistent self-flagellation, that only seldom is interrupted by some brief upbeat monent. Yes, one could argue that it's the loss of the Empire, but it has to be something more. Now some might find this quite rude and I surely don't want to be insulting, but there is a difference in attitude especially when comparing Britain to France. Even if France humiliatingly lost to the Third Reich, was occupied and also lost it's colonies too (which there were fewer) the attitude of the French is still different.

    For me the perfect example of this, which might sound very odd at first, is the British Space program. In the 1970's the British government came to the conclusion that having a British Space program was far too costly (even if it had a shoe-string budget compared to the Superpowers), the program didn't have a purpose and somehow it would be a far better idea buying the ICBM rockets from the US. So, in the very British manner, the (few) people of the British Space program got the news that the program was terminated while in Australia when they were preparing finally to launch a rocket with a satellite. Not knowing what to do with a completed rocket and satellite, they then unceremoniously launched the rocket (that btw differed a lot from other rockets as it had been made by unique British technology). The rocket performed well and put the satellite into orbit. The satellite performed also well and kept flying around the World for the time planned for a government that didn't need it. And this happened just on the cusp of the era of commercial satellite launches, which has turned out to be quite lucrative to the French with their Arianne rocket-family. I don't know how many Britons nowdays even know that their country did have a space program with British built rockets.

    Then there's the aviation industry, which created the jet engine with Frank Whittle, which today only manufactures parts of aircraft. By the way Whittles career reinforces this sad story of British government not using the talented people that worked for it. With more investment earlier the Battle of Britain could have been fought with Meteor jet aircraft. Or the car industry, which apart from few tiny sport car manufacturers is owned by foreigners. Now compare all this to France and the French counterparts in industry (Groupe PSA, Dassault group). Note the difference? Why is this?

    I've really thought about what would be the reason of this, and the only answer that I come to is that people serving in the British government and British politicians simply don't believe in their country. Things are problems for the British industry, not opportunities to be seized. Their (the governments) role is to protect British industries from foreign competition, not for British industries to gain success. This dismal narrow mindedness of the politicians and government officials is the basic problem. Even if Thatcher had a bit of Churchill in her (which other British politician would have dared to send the Royal Navy to fight for some far off islands with more sheep than people?), she surely wasn't anything like general Petain.
  • unenlightened
    3.1k
    I've thought about starting a thread on this British (or should I say English) gloominess and persistent self-flagellation, that only seldom is interrupted by some brief upbeat monent.ssu

    Could be interesting. I lived in France for a few years.One of the historic differences is the revolution. It may seem extravagant, but the class divisions in England especially play an important role. Most of the government went to the same school, and the same university. That's only slightly an exaggeration.
  • ssu
    893
    Could be interesting. I lived in France for a few years.One of the historic differences is the revolution. It may seem extravagant, but the class divisions in England especially play an important role. Most of the government went to the same school, and the same university. That's only slightly an exaggeration.unenlightened
    You even have a different language among the classes. Above all, the British are very class conscious in a totally different way than others.

    And I should note here that I referred to the French politicians and officials, not the ordinary French people. The French do a long history of revolting against their officials, while with the English, your civil war was ages ago. And that in my view was more of a struggle between the King and the aristocracy.
  • unenlightened
    3.1k
    Comment of the day. Some government spokesman burbles on in a brexit 'statement'. Reporter comments, "Well if you understood that, you probably weren't listening carefully enough."

    Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Let's be clear.
  • Benkei
    1.8k
    Funny because it's true...?
  • unenlightened
    3.1k
    Yeah. Gallows humour. This is what happens when supposed leaders and opinion makers are guided by focus groups and opinion polls - endless chasing fantasies on the road to disaster. People are actually saying things like 'we survived the war...'
  • SophistiCat
    697
    I lived in France for a few years.One of the historic differences is the revolution. It may seem extravagant, but the class divisions in England especially play an important role. Most of the government went to the same school, and the same university. That's only slightly an exaggeration.unenlightened

    I am not sure that the differences in class consciousness that you perceived have much to do with the French revolution. Here is Proust writing at the turn of the (last) century:

    ... middle-class people in those days took what was almost a Hindu view of society, which they held to consist of sharply defined castes, so that everyone at his birth found himself called to that station in life which his parents already occupied, and from which nothing, save the accident of an exceptional career or of a “good” marriage, could extract you and translate you to a superior caste. M. Swann the elder had been a stockbroker; and so “young Swann” found himself immured for life in a caste whose members’ fortunes, as in a category of tax-payers, varied between such and such limits of income. One knew the people with whom his father had associated, and so one knew his own associates, the people with whom he was “in a position” to mix. — Marcel Proust, Swann's Way
  • Pattern-chaser
    736
    I've really thought about what would be the reason of this, and the only answer that I come to is that people serving in the British government and British politicians simply don't believe in their country.ssu

    In today's world, existence is a communal, global, thing. Our country, in isolation, is less than half the story. Perhaps the politicians know this? :chin:
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