Words

Albert Keirkenhaur

I think this happens to most people at least a few times in their life, but many years ago in 6th grade i'd occasionally forget how to write certain letters of the alphabet. I would forget what an 'R' or 'S' even looked like or what the hell they were in the first place. Looking back on that it's amusing to look at the words we type and read daily and ''break the illusion''. Seeing them for how they really are- squiggles and lines. The fact that we were raised to comprehend these squiggles and lines is an interesting flirtation with the notion that there is probably infinite variations of how language could work. For example if you were raised in a society that communicated only by clapping their hands in morse code, you'd do the same. Or perhaps by humming at various intensities. No matter how unconventional something might seem it could probably foster some sort of obscure communication.

Barry Etheridge

I would counter with the observation that there exists no human society that does not use spoken language which suggests that variations are in fact finite and quite possibly do not exist at all. The human brain is pre-programmed for spoken language and grammar to such an extent that where no common language exists children are capable of creating one without supervision or guidance at all. Writing, semaphore, morse code and other signalling systems are in no way replacements for spoken language but simply ways to transmit words across distances which they do remarkably inefficiently (just remember how difficult it is to include tone in emails!)

Albert Keirkenhaur

↪Barry Etheridge

True. it's fascinating that we're programmed in such a way. Kinda like how nature ''knows'' to give us a liver for filtration, or eyes for vision.

Baden

I would counter with the observation that there exists no human society that does not use spoken language which suggests that variations are in fact finite and quite possibly do not exist at all. The human brain is pre-programmed for spoken language and grammar to such an extent that where no common language exists children are capable of creating one without supervision or guidance at all. — Barry Etheridge

The human brain is pre-programmed for language and grammar, it's true, but the language doesn't have to be spoken. Deaf children learn and create sign language in a way similar to normal children and spoken language right down to the potential insertion of novel grammatical complexity across generations / over time. A good example of this is Nicaraguan Sign Language, which developed spontaneously among a group of Nicaraguan schoolchildren as a pidgin initially before graduating later into a full-blown language. The reason no society uses anything other than spoken language is not because variations don't exist, but because they're generally unnecessary.

jkop

The squiggles and lines are constituitive for written words, but insufficient for being words. What written, spoken, or otherwise signed words have in common, and which makes them into words, is their causal history, not their design.

saw038

↪Albert Keirkenhaur

All symbols, sounds, or whatever represent something in nature that we are trying to express to other people.

Barry Etheridge

↪saw038

What in nature does 'Yoda' or 'Dalek' or 'sublime' or indeed 'philosophy' represent?

saw038

↪Barry Etheridge

The first two may not be from nature in the sense they are like a tree, but if you google them, they have an image, a shape, they occupy matter and space.

For the other two, these are internal concepts and feelings that we try to capture in words. But their is a physiological nature behind even these concepts.

wuliheron

A recent study of how children acquire grammar confirmed that Noam Chomsky was dead wrong and we use pattern matching to acquire grammar rather than inheriting it. The first five neural networks in the brain dedicated to pattern matching have already been mapped out as well. Work done by Alistar Clark has confirmed that most people rely upon merely the simplest two or three patterns for most daily tasks because of the energy intensive nature of the using this method, but the brain should contain eight or more. Anyway, it means there are roughly 4,430 distinctive patterns that can be generated which is certainly large, but definitely finite.

Terrapin Station

I would counter with the observation that there exists no human society that does not use spoken language which suggests that variations are in fact finite and quite possibly do not exist at all — Barry Etheridge

There's no way to tell that that's not simply because of social influence. No society emerged in isolation from others. Some became cut off from others, but they didn't start that way.

Michael

↪Terrapin Station

Well, given that all human life can be traced back to a single source, that's pretty trivial.

Hanover

think this happens to most people at least a few times in their life, but many years ago in 6th grade i'd occasionally forget how to write certain letters of the alphabet. — Albert Keirkenhaur

That never happened to me. Do recall any specific triggering event that caused the onset of your forgetfulness like being struck by a rock or inhaling noxious fumes?

Terrapin Station

Well, given that all human life can be traced back to a single source, that's pretty trivial. — Michael

Cool. So you agree that there's no way to tell that it's not simply because of social influence.

bassplayer

I wouldn't worry. Body language still speaks volumes more than written or spoken language

Barry Etheridge

↪Terrapin Station

Correct but not really an objection to my point as far as I can see.

Barry Etheridge

↪bassplayer

Really? Try conducting this thread in body language and see how far you get!

bassplayer

Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more.

Terrapin Station

↪Barry Etheridge

It would just be a matter of whether you were implying that it "suggests that potential/possible variations are in fact finite and quite possibly do not exist at all" or whether you were simply stating a contingent fact about what actually obtains at the moment.

Villion

↪Albert Keirkenhaur

It has something to do with the conventionalities in which our life abounds. Spoken or written words are only examples of those. It always comes a time when we look ant what is conventional without being entrapped by the convention and we are struck by the feeling that what we saw in one way, that is a conventional way, may look quite differently when out of the convention.

Words

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