I agree with everything you said. Atheism leads to nihilism and a lack of an objective basis for morality. How is that supposed to be a point though? Everyone recognizes this. How about the fact that the logical conclusion for religion is also just as bad. Islam promotes the slaughtering of non-believers. How is that any better than having no objective basis for morality? I'd take nihilism over mass murder followed by eternal suffering any day of the week. The main problem I have with theists is that they like to use what I call the "glass cannon" method. It is where you continuously criticize the atheist position while turning a blind eye to the massive inconsistencies on your own side of the argument and then go on to say that "since atheists are wrong I must be right". It is a truly underhanded strategy focused more on attacking your opponents rather than coming to the disinterested search for truth you claim to want. Show me how the internal inconsistencies of Abrahamic texts make sense and then we can talk.

I think the original post does call attention to a real crisis as the effects of a materialist worldview continue to take a hold. Personally I do think the post was a bit harsh towards Atheists and treated Atheists as a homogeneous group.

My own experience with Atheists and Atheism has lead me to a more Kierkegaardian solution where when regarding religion a leap of faith must be taken. He among others, Nietsche for example, foresaw and started to experience the effects of a materialist worldview. Faith requires a leap. Thus the Leap of Faith which requires an individual to accept that God cannot be empirically proven, which God cannot be. Supernatural experiences are exactly that, supernatural.

While Faith or a religious views may empirically lead to less suicidal thoughts and behaviors, religious aspects such as having community and strong social bonds/interests could play more into this than Faith itself. One can have faith, be completely alone, and be suicidal/melancholic. Anyone reading Kierkegaard long enough would see that faith and doubt/suicidal faith are not always linked.

Nonetheless i think to address the increased likelyhood of suicidal thoughts and actions as well as committing suicide for religiously unnaffilliated individuals is a valid concern. It's a concern that lead me directly from the huffpost article to the research publication itself. Atheists should be particularly interested in such empirical evidence and not turn their heads away from it just because one's sense of identity is threatened by a valid criticism/concern/problems for Atheists.

Atheism and Suicide Research

Many Atheists I have met quote Nietsche at random without acknowledging his criticism of science. For here I will leave a quote, "Science has no consideration for ultimate purposes any more than nature. . . . " however it will, "in many ways further the usefulness and welfare of man without intending to."Full Quote

Now my favorite quote from the research cited in defense of belief and religious affilliation is that "Religious commitment promotes social ties and reduces alienation."

It is possible to create social bonds with other atheists and in this way reduce alienation among atheists. Atheists are often faced with marginalization and ridicule as a result of being a minority or non-traditional. This doesn't mean it's impossible for Atheists to create community. To have potluck and a weekly bowling or dungeons and dragons night is entirely possible! Perhaps there needs to be an equally devoted commitment to DnD and Bowling to resolve the issue and not simply a matter if faith/belief. (Rural isolated atheists aside.)

And now for a bit of humor for those who kindly read my response. I treat you with my demented mind.

I saw the phrase "gaping hole" and as a gay male marginalized by religion, immediately thought it was a gay porno. Gaping hole on Xtube means something quite different on a philosophy forum! Here I thought the post was going to be The Philosophy of Fisting, a Materialistic and Existential Endeavor. Maybe this will be a good essay for my next book?

Hmmmm, I was diagnosed with ADHD over 10 years ago when i was 41 so I will rest upon that as my defence for not reading all of the posts in their entirety....

Materialism, eh? What is that exactly? I'd always lazily assumed that to be the rapacious quest of those that didn't want to be perceived as 'losers'. The need to be defined by having a nice house in a nice suburb, owning a nice car, wearing designer clothes, and having access to lots of cash etc. Ideally a prestigious job would enhance the aforementioned too *yawn*....

I will depart this mortal coil with even less in my assets ledger than when I first arrived! Materialism is something that has never seduced me, yet I don't despise those that unashamedly embrace it. If that is what brings other people happiness then well and good to them. It doesn't bother me that I might be despised or regarded with suspicion for not being that way inclined. I just 'am'. Nothing more and nothing less. One day I won't 'be', and nothing will alter that, thus it is incidental as to whether or not i have much or if I have little, no?

that is not the type of materialism being discussed...

Materialism's gaping hole is its brute-fact, and Materialists inability to define the "objective reality", "objective existence" and "actuality" that they attribute to this material universe, to argue for Materialism over Idealism.

Some Materialists declare that the world of their Materialism is absurd (They're called "absurdists"). Of course they're right about that. ...but it doesn't seem to make them question their Materialism.

I'm dismayed by the way this thread is going. Yes, Ram's post spoke of some negative things, but so, uniformly, do the shorter posts of our aggressive Atheists.

When I reply to aggressive Atheists here, I reply to at least some of the points that they make in their posts and which I disagree with. That's what a reply is. I don't use one-line dismissals of what they say. — Michael Ossipoff

Atheists are not necessarily materialists or physicalists.

Materialism (whatever that means) isn't the only kind of objective reality that can exist.

I think that materialism and idealism are both nonsense. As a matter of fact, there really isn't any real, meaningful distinction between them.

To boil things down- atheism gives a person a pass to do whatever they want. — Ram

No it doesn't. It seems like the other way around to me. Believing in a merciful God allows you to do whatever you want because you will just be forgiven, as long as you believe.

I am a human being - a highly intelligent social animal - that depends on maintaining healthy relationships with others of my kind. I will engage in behaviors that ensure that I maintain those relationships. This is what morality boils down to.

I would question your morality if you approve of someone else torturing others for eternity for simply thinking differently than you do.

Atheists are not necessarily materialists or physicalists. — Harry Hindu

Of course. But I was referring to aggressive Atheists, who are mostly Materialists.

Materialism (whatever that means)...

Merriam-Webster gives a good definition.

...isn't the only kind of objective reality that can exist.

Of course. Tegmark's MUH, an Idealism, has been referred to as an Ontic Structural Realism. It's about an objective world-story, as opposed to the subjective experience-story that I've been speaking of.

But of course our experience is subjective.

I think that materialism and idealism are both nonsense. As a matter of fact, there really isn't any real, meaningful distinction between them.

Of course you're welcome to believe and say that, as long as you don't have to support it.

Strictly-speaking, no metaphysics can be proved, because a metaphysics like Materialism, dependent on belief in an unverifiable, unfalsifiable brute-fact, can't be disproved. Likewise for any unfalsifiable proposition.

You want a distinction between Materialism and the metaphysics that I've been proposing (described in some detail earlier in the "How Do You Feel About Religion" thread)?

Materialism's unverifiable, unfalsifiable brute-fact.

Michael Ossipoff

At the risk of killing the thread for a second time, all of the erudite verbiage being thrown about is little more than polished bullshit. Something 'is' or it 'isn't'.