• Perdidi Corpus
    23
    I believe man tends to identify himself as the point / set of points from which he experiences. I mean that he tends to identify himself as the place where he stands, and do not mean to say that that is what he is.
    Belief structures, conscious or otherwise, would be the mountains and valleys over which we perceive.

    How would you expand on this idea? Would you rather detract from it? How would you change it?

    What means do we possess to go from belief structure to belief structure - to move from place to place in this metaphysical world?

    Is it not necessary for truth to be consistent with itself? If so, does this not mean that every truth must be seeable from a single point (belief structure), since by jumping between belief structures we are cherry picking when to use which structure?

    What is the relationship between a question and its answer? - That is: Where do we have to be so that the answer is seeable?
  • tim wood
    1.1k
    I think you've got a good topic here - at least as I read it. That is that most folk's worldview is solipsist, self-centered. You identify that with place and the centrality of the point of experience. The problem: how to break out of that to a more expansive world-view - not as a matter of empathy or even psychology, but as philosophy. Is there any forceful idea that leads, pushes, and guides to a greater and more comprehensive world-view?

    And, to be sure, there's the corollary question of just what that world-view comprises.
  • Perdidi Corpus
    23
    I think you've got a good topic here - at least as I read it.tim wood

    I have been told the idea as is expressed is not very clear, and by making that remark, you to make me again ponder about how to make it clearer. Do you have any suggestions?

    Is there any forceful idea that leads, pushes, and guides to a greater and more comprehensive world-view?tim wood

    Indead. I suggest that the idea expounded by this model of human identification, might just be that forceful idea that leads, pushes and guides, or is at least a necessary framework for the wannabe traveler...
  • BrianW
    153


    In a previous post (different thread), I posited that,
    Belief is a response to knowing.BrianW

    I explained it thus,
    Our relative perception of an absolute reality creates a comprehensive < > unity... That is, our awareness of reality as containing what we know and don't know has resulted in the response we categorize as belief.BrianW

    In detail, I would say that our faculty of knowledge, our intelligence, is a whole unit (not fragmented). Therefore, all that we perceive and analyze as having utility - knowledge - becomes assembled and stored within that faculty. The resulting aggregate, belief, is significant as a key ingredient in the generation of our experiences. It is a reference point for the 'measure' of new experiences and a mirror through which we reflect past experiences in order to determine what value to extract from them.

    To answer the question,
    What means do we possess to go from belief structure to belief structure - to move from place to place in this metaphysical world?Perdidi Corpus

    I think the means is learning because by gaining more knowledge we inevitably expand our beliefs.
  • InfiniteZero
    12


    What is the relationship between a question and its answer? - That is: Where do we have to be so that the answer is seeablePerdidi Corpus

    I think, we are in principle never going to be in a position to see the answer to our question. The question is asked from a position that demands an answer that does not and cannot exist in the same position the question was asked from. Insofar the answer is seeable, we would perhaps need to be an entity capable of having epistemic access to reality non-subjectively i.e. without restraints or distortions from our perceptual and introspective faculties. But, I think the relationship between a question and its answer is that of limiting the questioner itself. What eventually comes out of it is the limit of what seeable answers the questioner can know before the limit is reached and the answers to our questions are no longer visible.
  • 4thClassCitizen
    5
    In the absence of understanding people resort to beliefs. Children believe in a real Santa Clause until they learn enough to understand that he is fiction, based on St.Nicholas.
    Most people will never find meaningful answers because they don't know the proper questions to ask.
  • Perdidi Corpus
    23
    In the absence of understanding people resort to beliefs.4thClassCitizen

    A belief need not be baseless. In fact... it´s never baseless - The base may not, however, be a foundation over which someone well acquainted with logic would be willing to use as his own.

    I think, we are in principle never going to be in a position to see the answer to our question.InfiniteZero

    With the exception of the type of case presented below, I too think it would be silly to use the same point from which the question came from to answer it. But one can move and that is what I am trying to get at here - an algorithm that gets you from a question to an answer or at least to the smallest range of answers that would all be possible according to the framework provided my the presuppositions the question carries with it. Other questions may indirectly aid in shortening even further this range.
    The idea of "seeing an answer" is basically just saying that the answer is obvious from the point which we perceive. That point, I posit, should be a universal algorithm if we want to use it to answer a question. As for the algorithm itself I have a few ideas but they seem too basic to be useful by their collective selves.

    The question is asked from a position that demands an answer that does not and cannot exist in the same position the question was asked from.InfiniteZero
    That is actually not true. For example the question - "What does it mean to mean?" Already speaks from a perspective from which the answer is knowable at least in the form of "That's what it is". If you wish to discuss that particular question, or a few other questions that relate to this topic, consider going to the following thread: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/3980/what-prevents-us-from-seeingknowing-the-truth - You may also discuss that question here.

    I think the means is learning because by gaining more knowledge we inevitably expand our beliefs.BrianW
    Yes... new answers do aid in seeing the world from a different perspective. But then ... so do questions - A question you are trying to answer might just force you to move somewhere where you are not - or maybe you don´t even need to try to answer it in order to move away. Do you think that is simply because questions already provide a base of presuppositions we end up standing on?
  • InfiniteZero
    12
    That is actually not true. For example the question - "What does it mean to mean?" Already speaks from a perspective from which the answer is knowable at least in the form of "That's what it is".Perdidi Corpus

    Yes, I agree to the fact that we may know what type of answer we may come to have from asking our question. However, it is the token content of the answer I was aiming at in particular. I guess it would be something like an epistemic humility view. We can ask the question, we may even know that the answer posits something about that there is something to know out there, yet, the content of the individual objects in question remain in principle beyond us having epistemic access to them. the algorithm may provide us with knowing the type of thing that is in question and give us an answer to what type of thing we are trying to get at. But, no algorithm may capture the contents of the individual objects that are in question, the contents of which we are not in any position to know. Parallel to how no mathematical formula captures the contents of the objects it represents, only its structure.

    I agree that one can answer parts of the question as you show in the example that way. But, answering through pointing out "that's what X is" doesn't give us knowledge about the content of X in any way. I do not perceive or introspect the contents of X. If I asked the question "how does the water in Omaha beach feel like?", then I would know once I experienced it myself. I could get second-hand knowledge or know that it feels like the water in some other beach or something similar, or simply know that it feels "watery". But the knowledge of the content of what the question asks us would elude me unless I had the capacity to experience it myself and acquire knowledge of it that way. Knowledge regarding more fundamental properties perhaps may be such that they do in fact escape us this way.
  • BrianW
    153
    Do you think that is simply because questions already provide a base of presuppositions we end up standing on?Perdidi Corpus

    In a way, yeah. I think when you formulate a question you reveal to yourself the choice you want to make, or the direction you are tending to.

    What is the relationship between a question and its answer? - That is: Where do we have to be so that the answer is seeable?Perdidi Corpus

    Do we ever really get a direct answer or do we arrive at a series of probable outcomes which get us past one step to another until we realize we've already gone past our initial problems and must then focus on the upcoming ones. Coz I feel like there is some cyclic patterns which we tend to revolve around until every turn of that circumstance becomes too familiar not to understand.
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.