• Edward Knox
    1
    First post and tentatively philosophical, so feel free to be brutal.

    I recently had the joy of seeing Black Panther, a brilliant movie full of marvelous colour, sound, imagery and acting. I thoroughly enjoyed it 10/10. Problem is I read a fair few philosophical pieces prior to seeing the movie which emphasized how Wakanda represented what could have been for an Africa without colonialism. So I was hoping for an in-depth, inspiring, and plausible backstory to Wakanda, something that people could take for themselves and dream of remaking. A hopeful story. Lots of people seem to have claimed Wakanda has done just that. This disturbs me and I want to argue why:

    Firstly, Wakanda is an Absolute Monarchy, and a militarized somewhat Proto-fascist society. Wakanda is a dictatorship legitimized by the violent and forced subjugation of rival tribes that survives through a regime of mysticism/ritualism, isolationism, and conspiracy about the dangers of the outside world. The negatives here should be self evident. The lack of trade internationally and the government control over vibranium suggest an insanely restrictive and protectionist centrally planned economy too. It's a concern too that so many Wakandans were willing to abandon their political processes and engage in civil war in such a short time. It speaks of a very weak political and civic culture.

    Beyond this the society is unusually violent. Leadership is decided by trial by combat, a disastrously bad system as being the greatest warrior does not mean being the greatest leader or even a good leader. For a society so technologically advanced to have the political culture of a bandit gang is concerning. Beyond this it is clear that despite their technological success slaughter is a common thing in Wakanda. Weaponry is on display everywhere, and many characters are covered in scars which mark their recorded kills. How has a society that can cure fatal spinal injuries in hours not developed organised law and order or even need to kill that much? How has such a society condoned the glorification and celebration of killing through such mutilations? Outsiders are tortured and killed for entering regardless of their reasoning. Mercy is at the discretion of a king. Those who flee or resist are brutally murdered and their children orphaned.

    Wakanda may be millennia ahead in technology but they are millennia behind in societal and political development. The fact that no monarch has visited the mountain tribe or even attempted to make amends with them in centuries is testament to this fact. It seems as if you take away the Vibranium Wakanda is in no way distinct from any other 3rd world nation except in that in many ways it is much worse. In many ways a Wakanda without Vibranium doesn't seem too dissimilar to Isolationist North Korea which too harbours weapons of mass destruction, glorifies violence, relies on mysticism to justify its rule, and has little or no political or civic culture.

    Weapons and technology does not make a civilized society. Non-violent, truthful, reasoned political and social processes do. So what is to love about Wakanda? Who would aspire to such a society?

    And would you really want Wakanda forever?

    A movie note: Vibranium as a mystical item that solves all the worlds problems also seems like lazy film making to me. The movie doesn't feel nearly as inspirational when its based on a fantasy metal solving all the worlds problems.
  • Noble Dust
    7.8k


    The annoying thing to me is that, of course, Wakanda is actually just as colonial as any other modern civilization. That's what you get when the colonized west makes a blockbuster Hollywood movie about what an uncolinized Africa would be like. This to me is another example of pretty average, cash-cow art that gets a standing O for being political. It reminds me of show and tell in elementary school; no room for critique.
  • Ciceronianus
    2.9k
    I confess I've never seen the movie, and probably won't until it appears before me on my television as I sit in my comfy chair, if then. I'm not much interested in superhero movies; certainly not enough to see one in a theater.

    But I find the use of the word "Vibranium" interesting, because "ium" is a suffix used in nouns borrowed from Latin. It seems the Romans influenced even the imaginary land of Wakanda.

    But perhaps those making the movie were no more interested in depicting an admirable nation than we've been interested in creating one.
  • Hanover
    12k
    I confess I've never seen the movie, and probably won't until it appears before me on my television as I sit in my comfy chair, if then.Ciceronianus the White

    Well, I win in terms of my inability to respond to the OP. While you didn't see the movie, I didn't even fully read the OP. I can say though that the word utopia, which seems to be what vibranium might acheive, is also a made up word for literary purposes, but Greek roots were used, not Roman, and I prefer gyros to spaghetti.
  • Noble Dust
    7.8k
    I prefer gyros to spaghetti.Hanover

    Treasonous. Avgolemono soup to antipasto, maybe.
  • Ciceronianus
    2.9k
    Well, I win in terms of my inability to respond to the OP. While you didn't see the movie, I didn't even fully read the OP. I can say though that the word utopia, which seems to be what vibranium might acheive, is also a made up word for literary purposes, but Greek roots were used, not Roman, and I prefer gyros to spaghetti.Hanover

    I like both, and as the Empire was both Roman (Latin) and Greek, respect ancient Greek though I know far less about it than I do of Latin--and my knowledge of Latin is haphazard.
  • BC
    13.1k
    Here is a video which vividly displays the danger in becoming overly interested in comic books, super heroes, and Hollywood. Or Ballywood, or wood in general.

  • praxis
    6.2k
    So what is to love about Wakanda?Edward Knox

    Having watched the movie the other night, I can say that I love the styles of clothing, and a lot of the design in general.

    Who would aspire to such a society?Edward Knox

    Comic book enthusiasts, maybe?

    And would you really want Wakanda forever?Edward Knox

    Nothing lasts forever, and indeed by end of the film Wakandaians were apparently starting to get over their xenophobia and about to merge with the rest of the world.
  • Gord
    24
    While I found OP's analysis spot on, l i kinda disagree with him in a sense. I think that before colonization africa was a country rich in spirit and not all that much else. I dont see this as an entirely bad thing. Perhaps black people long for that type of lifestyle again and thats why they identified with it and it resonated with them so strongly. I dont think one can divorce race entirely from social and political culture. Objectively speaking, yes the West is much further along in its thinking and this is reflected in its many customs. It has forced this structure upon less mentally developed nations creating a rift in the zeitgeist of those nations. Perhaps progress for progress's sake isnt always wise. Something to think about.
  • gurugeorge
    514
    Some on the Alt Right thought the movie hilarious precisely because it represents as an ideal for Blacks what Whites are forbidden from thinking about: an exclusive ethnostate.

    The reality is that most "SJW" stuff in movies is box-ticking exercises (and to that extent, the critique you might get from SJWs is partly correct - it's insincere posturing). The diversity industry is such a malignant cancer that there are a million and one landmines out there for any commercial company or product, any one of them easily exploitable by someone with a grudge, or someone who wants to make a pile of cash. That's the general idea of the PC cult, to have people on tenterhooks so they're easily controlled, so they'll toe the party line automatically.

    It was actually quite a fun movie though. One gets the feeling that the people at Marvel, though they may virtue signal as furiously as anyone else, for fear of losing their jobs, are actually more enthused about making great comic book movies than they are about being political activists in their profession.

    Also, Wakanda was a thing in the comics right from the early 70s, I believe, pretty much as depicted. It was meant in the liberal spirit of, "People are equal, and Blacks could do great things too if they had the chance." The comics were always fairly liberal, though formerly (until the last decade or so) they put storytelling above propaganda.
  • Devolved
    8
    Weapons and technology does not make a civilized society. Non-violent, truthful, reasoned political and social processes do. So what is to love about Wakanda? Who would aspire to such a society?Edward Knox

    I'm guessing Wakandans would. I think the whole point of this imaginary country is to ponder what would happen if you've mixed African tribalism with isolationist policies and technological achievements.

    The better question would be if you actually be able to recognize the very thing you did given that you were born there and likely taught that Wakanda is a heaven on Earth.
  • Fool
    66
    I just saw it myself. I knew it would be Marvel/DC (or whatever it’s called) trash, but I was curious about the message and wanted to support the production for other reasons. Pretty shallow overall, but I appreciated the bad guy character, whose name I’ve already forgotten. He was the voice of pain and anger that the movie had to provide, but they avoided condoning his aggression by making him a villain.
  • Marchesk
    4.6k
    He was the voice of pain and anger that the movie had to provide, but they avoided condoning his aggression by making him a villain.Fool

    Well, he did want to basically use Wakunda's advanced tech to start a world war to get back at the world for colonialism and slavery. It would have been bad for everyone, Wakanda included, as Black Panther noted. Some of those other nations do have nukes, and large military forces.
  • Marchesk
    4.6k
    That's what you get when the colonized west makes a blockbuster Hollywood movie about what an uncolinized Africa would be like.Noble Dust

    Was uncolonized Africa that much different than the rest of the world? There have been plenty of empires and conquest from many different civilizations and groups prior to European colonization.
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