• Posty McPostface
    3.5k
    Why not say seems concerned or seems to focus mostly upon?Mayor of Simpleton

    Thanks for polishing that sentence for me. Yes, concerned or focused seems more apt here.

    I wasn't aware that I made use of emotions to pick a pair of shoes. For the most part the reasons for the choices of my shoes are a combination of comfort and color/texture in relation to the rest of my outfit.Mayor of Simpleton

    Comfort seems to be the key word here. Comfort is a attitude or emotion elicited from some state of affairs. That state of affairs seems driven by urges, needs, want's, which all are emotionally driven, in my mind.

    I cannot ever remember making an emotional driven decision about my shoes.Mayor of Simpleton

    Well, when you pick a pair of shoes at the store, then your decision to pick some pair of shoes is highly emotionally driven. Don't you think so?

    Really?

    I find this quite odd as the people I know who are basically running their lives upon emotional basis find it extremely difficult to make and decisions out of fear of making some sort of potential emotional conflicts. Often I am consulted by them to aid them in their decision making processes as I can basically ignore the emotional baggage and make a logical choice.
    Mayor of Simpleton

    In another thread, you talked about cognitive dissonance. If we were really or 'truly' reasonable, then cognitive dissonances would never arise. Just using that as an example to make the point clear.

    Also, I would suggest that emotions have not cornered the market on irrational behaviour in the same manner that applications of pure logical can be irrational in terms of tendency toward a cognitive bias.Mayor of Simpleton

    Again, if we were 'truly rational' being then cognitive bias or dissonance would never occur.

    We basically react on the basis of either logic or emotion or a combination of both to any given state of affairs coupled with predicating factors leading the way... whether we are aware of these predicating factors or not, but nonetheless we simply react.Mayor of Simpleton

    So, you're going one step further or (backwards, if you prefer) and talking about needs, wants, and instinctual desires, is that correct? Perhaps, the unconscious is at play here, in some unknown manner to us all to psychologize the issue.
  • Mayor of Simpleton
    392
    Comfort seems to be the key word here. Comfort is a attitude or emotion elicited from some state of affairs. That state of affairs seems driven by urges, needs, want's, which all are emotionally driven, in my mind.Posty McPostface

    I cannot ever remember making an emotional driven decision about my shoes.
    — Mayor of Simpleton

    Well, when you pick a pair of shoes at the store, then your decision to pick some pair of shoes is highly emotionally driven. Don't you think so?
    Posty McPostface

    I believe we shop rather differently.

    I tend toward things I know I want or things I know I'm looking for. This makes me into a rather dreadful consumer in our current day and age. I don't really react much to commercials other than use them as information about what is avaliable. Even Facebook's bots gave up trying to toss commercials and recommendations my way.

    Rather than make a long story of the boring shoping habits of the Mayor of Simpleton, I'll address the shoes issue.

    The issue of comfort my indeed have a sight emotional basis I tend to look at how a shoe is made and buy according to how well it fits my foot. As I only wear sand shoe, casual sneaker type shoes, my purchases are according to comfort of fit and color. Color might seem emotional, but as I own many t-shirts and hoodies I tend to have my footwear match up with the tendency of color of these other items of clothing; thus I have mostly red, blue and green.

    I'm aware of fashion, but really pay it little attention. I know what I like and when I shop I look for that specifically; thus I never browse.

    The other shoes I own are for the various sports I am involved in playing. My cycling shoes are a specific brand as they fit and function for my feet the best. The same goes for my baseball cleats. As for the color choices, my current cycling team uses red/black/white and the baseball team I am now changing to will be red/navy/grey/white, so the color choices reflect those preset constraints. Perhaps the only emotion I'm dealing with at the moment is finding buyers for my old baseball stuff in dark green/white/grey.

    A funny thing about fashion... I don't follow it, but rather find what I can coexist with. Once I find a company that makes clothing that fits I stick with that company until they change the fit. If something does not fit, no matter how it looks I won't buy it. It seems just as logical to do this as it might seem to be emotional in the presentation of my outward image.

    Urges, needs, want's, which all are emotionally driven, in your mind are; in my mind quite is a logically calculated processes with a slight tinge of emotion. Perhaps we simply "tick" differetly? :razz:

    Meow!

    G
  • Posty McPostface
    3.5k


    So, instead of contemplating the philosophy of shoe picking... May I ask about your take on the Humean saying that reason is (instrumental) or a "slave" to the passions/emotions/desire?

    Edit: The reason I ask is because as a former adherent or believer of stoicism I find it incommensurable with that philosophy, despite it seeming true. Hence the cognitive dissonance.

    On the other end I have the thought about Buddhist realizing ''nirvana'' as a state of mind similar to which the mind is no longer constrained by desire/emotions/the passions.

    Does that sound correct to you?
  • Mayor of Simpleton
    392
    In another thread, you talked about cognitive dissonance. If we were really or 'truly' reasonable, then cognitive dissonances would never arise. Just using that as an example to make the point clear.

    Also, I would suggest that emotions have not cornered the market on irrational behaviour in the same manner that applications of pure logical can be irrational in terms of tendency toward a cognitive bias.
    — Mayor of Simpleton

    Again, if we were 'truly rational' being then cognitive bias or dissonance would never occur.

    We basically react on the basis of either logic or emotion or a combination of both to any given state of affairs coupled with predicating factors leading the way... whether we are aware of these predicating factors or not, but nonetheless we simply react.
    — Mayor of Simpleton

    So, you're going one step further or (backwards, if you prefer) and talking about needs, wants, and instinctual desires, is that correct? Perhaps, the unconscious is at play here, in some unknown manner to us all to psychologize the issue.
    Posty McPostface

    I don't believe I'd ever care to use the term "truly reasonable". I find both reason and truth to be relative state of status. In short, both are subject to accumulation of information/experience leading to a subsequent refinement/adaptation of notions of truth and reason.

    I find that it might well be next to impossible to be void of coginitive bias, but one can make an effort to be aware of the pitfalls of coginitive biases... in one's self and others.

    Get this:

    Bias blind spot: a coginitive bias where one has the tendency to see oneself as less biased than other people, or to be able to identify more cognitive biases in others than in oneself.

    I feel like I just wrote a punchline to an inside joke about myself.

    Anyway...

    I've noticed that the vast majority of hardline ideologies (political, social, religious, aesthetic) that might sound very irrational have a greater tendency to be "over-rationalized" via various forms and manifestations of confirmation bias (The tendency to search for, interpret, focus on and remember information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions.)

    Such lines of (often) obvious irrationality have been thought out and reasoned meticulously, but only within the realm of a hermetically sealed worldview that allows only evidence that supports a preference.

    Using only reason... using logics alone is not enough.

    Reason and logic tell us nothing. They are simply tools used in investigation and arguments, but themselves are not the materials of the investigation or those used in constructing the argument and they are not the action of the tools being used. A hammer does not swing itself, nor does that hammer recognize the nail being driven or even it it is driving a nail or even if it is a nail wher the nail is being driven... and so on.

    My take is that emotions and reasoning are not mutually exclusive or rivals or opposites.

    I don't know if that helps clear or futher muddle up my position, but I simply don't see differences or dichotomies or domains so clear cut as seems to be presented in the ad populum of the world of everyday life.

    Meow!

    G
  • Mayor of Simpleton
    392
    May I ask about your take on the Humean saying that reason is (instrumental) or a "slave" to the passions/emotions/desire?

    On the other end I have the thought about Buddhist realizing ''nirvana'' as a state of mind similar to which the mind is no longer constrained by desire/emotions/the passions.

    Does that sound correct to you?
    Posty McPostface

    I've always thought that the Humean saying has been overly generalized. I also have the notion that passions/emotions/desires can indeed be both rational and irrational, as well as both reasonable and unreasonable. I simply cannot remove them from the context they are in and treat them all as if they are simply the same thing. Indeed a point can be made as stated by this saying in some particular context, but I believe it would not be all that difficult to present a contridiction to the saying; thus allowing it to collapse like the idealist house of card it indeed happens to be.

    I tend to avoid Buddhist things, as well as all religious or spiritual notions these days. I've never quite figured out these cryptic metaphors and why anyone would take them literally much less so seriously. I suppose my take on "nirvana" is that is just another cage of constraint known as nirvana that one needs to rid one's self of just as much as to achieve "enlightenment" one must let go of enlightenment. Beautiful placebos or simply the ability to blow smoke up one's own ass? I palindrom I? :wink:

    Meow!

    G
  • Posty McPostface
    3.5k


    Thanks, fun talking with you Mayor!
  • Mayor of Simpleton
    392


    ..., fun ...Posty McPostface

    That's cool with me and makes me happy. :grin:

    Meow!

    G
  • Posty McPostface
    3.5k
    That's cool with me and makes me happy.Mayor of Simpleton

    What purpose does philosophy serve you?

    I have already stated what I think philosophy seems to be for me, am quite interested in other opinions too.
  • TheMadFool
    2.3k
    I believe reason and emotion are two different things and not in an obvious definitional way.

    Emotions need to be subdivided into two categories:

    1. Cause: Emotions as cause are the most powerful and, in the same breath, most dangerous. Our sense of wonder at mystery and the unknown evoke our curiosity and prod us to the doors of knowledge and wisdom. I think love also falls in this class. This is a good thing.

    However, there are other emotions like lust, hate, anger, jealousy, etc. that have causal import and these are to be avoided.

    2. Effect: Emotions as effect is okay. One may be allowed to feel anger, sorrow, lust, etc. insofar as they are prevented from making us take action to satisfy them.

    Also @Wayfarer said that we do have a choice. We aren't slaves to our nature. I think he's right because not as obvious as the fact that emotion influences our reason we must think a little harder to realize that our reason influence our emotions too and this is a very important step to understanding that we have control over our lives. The extent of this power over the self may vary with people and this results in the variety of personalities extant in our world.
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