I hereby dub you T Snark.

Lot of noise over a topic nobody took that seriously. Gotta remind myself this is the internet's after all.

Many posters did take it seriously though.

I would have liked for the mods to have made an exception to the rules in this case and allowed the topic to keep going, despite the questionable assumptions underlying it and the even more questionable solution brought forth.

Somewhat akin to the impractical if not impossible utopian scheme laid out in Plato's Republic, which, more than anything else, serves as the occasion to think through important topics like justice, the nature of various political regimes, the aim of a genuine philosophical education, etc.

Oh well. I'm still not convinced that Jake was being entirely serious, but I have to admit he sold it well and put some real effort into his views, however naive (imo), as did others who contributed.

That's what people think after the fact, but it ignores that people are actively working for it to bring that change about against a tendency to keep a status quo. — MindForged

Thus, it is sorting itself out.

Oh well. I'm still not convinced that Jake was being entirely serious, but I have to admit he sold it well and put some real effort into his views, however naive (imo), as did others who contributed. — Erik

We all have a responsibility toward how we respond and react to posts that we may or may not agree with and being a virtual platform does not give anyone - whether a moderator or a poster - the entitlement to behave irresponsibly. I appreciate and respect your opinion here as well as @Bitter Crank and wanted to advise that while Jake is new to the forums and did not adequately articulate his point of view on a subject that naturally arouses controversy, posters should flag posts that they do not agree with and patiently wait should there be no immediate response because for one we each live in different continents, and two we discuss with one another prior to deleting a thread to ensure a level playing field.

In this instance, that decision was made without me and I respect the decision and hope that Jake will reconsider his opinions and reformulate his suggestions. We do not tolerate sexism and sexism is not gender-biased.

I agree with your take personally but another mod saw fit to delete the discussion, presumably because it had deteriorated due to the level of polarization there. Waiting for an explanation to give you all.

Many posters did take it seriously though. — Erik

My take is that moderation in that regards is pertinent. I was just posting yesterday in a thread about the philosophy of 'farts', so go figure.

The farts thing was deleted because fart was a multiple sockpuppet btw. If a regular non-sockpuppet poster had posted that it most likely would have been left there.

We all have a responsibility toward how we respond and react to posts that we may or may not agree with and being a virtual platform does not give anyone - whether a moderator or a poster - the entitlement to behave irresponsibly. — TimeLine

Boy, here's a bad idea for me to respond to this. But anyway. You all let him say those things about men. No one spoke up. I've always spoken up when I feel someone, anyone is being treated with disrespect, but none of you did. I feel betrayed. I love you people and you let him say what he did about me just because I'm a man. How could you have let him say those things. Is that what you think of me? You wouldn't have let him say that about anyone else but me.

:up:

I respect the decision too. This case may be one of those rare scenarios in which a topic that should have been deleted right from the start, at least according to forum guidelines, actually turns into an interesting discussion. What to do in those strange cases? Tough call but like I said I can see and appreciate why it was removed. I'm a believer in the importance of laying out rules and then applying them impartially.

My take is that moderation in that regards is pertinent. I was just posting yesterday in a thread about the philosophy of 'farts', so go figure. — Posty McPostface

Dude, I was reading that "farts" thread more thoroughly than I do most others around here, at least up until mention was made of lighting a match with a fart. :lol:

Great contributions to the topic there, though, Posty!

Hanover looks good with a baton.

I agree with your take personally but another mod saw fit to delete the discussion, presumably because it had deteriorated due to the level of polarization there. Waiting for an explanation to give you all. — Baden

Sounds good. That was a tough call for you guys and I can see the rationale behind either decision.

Appreciate your understanding. :up:

(Admittedly, I slept through most of the controversy, so I got the timing right for a change. ;) )

Boy, here's a bad idea for me to respond to this. But anyway. You all let him say those things about men. No one spoke up. I've always spoken up when I feel someone, anyone is being treated with disrespect, but none of you did. I feel betrayed. I love you people and you let him say what he did about me just because I'm a man. How could you have let him say those things. Is that what you think of me? You wouldn't have let him say that about anyone else but me. — T Clark

T-Clark, everyone in the world is not awake when you are awake. Some people work full time. Some people have families. Some people are getting married, others are preparing for international travel. If you are upset about a post, all you need to do is flag it and be patient, which I understand can be difficult when the subject is so controversial, but this thread you created only undermines our capacity as moderators. We will delete threads once we have had the discussions about whether it is in contravention of forum guidelines and sometimes we independently make those choices depending on the seriousness of a number of factors. You do no need to blow the trumpet like this as a little child would scream and bang his hands on the floor because he was refused ice-cream and forcing his mother to give him what he wants just to keep him quiet.

You of all people should know that I am very level-headed on controversial subjects and would have taken action had I known about the thread, as would have all the other moderators. If you felt alone, you are wrong - very wrong - for thinking that. We did not let him say anything and if you disagree with that, if you really do believe that there was some injustice here, do you really believe this thread is the best approach?

Granted, people yell when they feel like what they are saying is not being heard. Like they are not listened to. But you PM'd me asking me to look at that thread not considering that I was asleep. I would have been on your side and taken action, but you did not wait and trust me. Or us. It was inappropriate for that reason.

You of all people should know that I am very level-headed on controversial subjects — TimeLine

I lol'ed

Not just saying this, but TL is one of the more restrained of us in the mod forum.

Yet she's the only one that will tell you just how level-headed she is.

T-Clark, everyone in the world is not awake when you are awake. Some people work full time. Some people have families. Some people are getting married, others are preparing for international travel. If you are upset about a post, all you need to do is flag it and be patient, which I understand can be difficult when the subject is so controversial, but this thread you created only undermines our capacity as moderators. — TimeLine

I PMd Baden and told him I was going to start the thread and asked if he had any issues. He was online at that point. I guess he didn't have a chance to read it till later. I asked you for your opinion, but you were not online. There was nothing wrong with the thread I started. I didn't want to flag the post. I didn't want it deleted. I just wanted to discuss why it was ok to say those things about men but not about women. That's beside the point - if that thread had been about women, it would have been off within five minutes, no matter who was getting married or flying to Timbuktu.

I wasn't really upset about the post. I was upset that profound contempt for men didn't even raise an eyebrow. I couldn't even get a response. I was the turd in the swimming pool while Jake was proposing erasing half the population. My half.

and two we discuss with one another prior to deleting a thread to ensure a level playing field. — TimeLine

I'm fining you 50 points for misusing a cliché. Your discussion among yourselves whether to delete a thread ensures collusion, not a level playing field. In a contest between the members and the mods, or the members and the mob, there is no level field.

but this thread you created only undermines our capacity as moderators. — TimeLine

How on earth does it undermine your (plural) capacity as moderators?

Wait, you can't fine a person points, can you? There is no contest, Buttercrack, our discussions are to ensure accountability and it undermines our capacity because the reason why threads like this are started is because you think we are not doing what we should.

Wait, you can't fine a person points, can you? — TimeLine

Watch me. And pay up.

Anyone can start a Feedback discussion any time they want. A little patience would be helpful sometimes as it may be possible to solve the problem without a big unnecessary hooha.

a big unnecessary hooha. — Baden

Hey, I resemble that remark.

I was just going to add that you did contact me first. I was speaking generally.

Philosophy is by its nature one big hooha, when you get down to it. Whether it's necessary or not is under review. You will be notified when a decision is reached. If the decision is unfavorable, philosophy will be unplugged and all mods will cease to exist.

Damn... :scream:

I was just going to add that you did contact me first. I was speaking generally. — Baden

Well, I have no problem with the "big" and "hooha" parts. It's the "unnecessary" part that I question.