But both language and architecture are junior to, or depend on, there being living species. — Wayfarer
Were the robot revolution to occur and murder us all, the evolutionary principles would function all the same. — StreetlightX
But that it is life and not something else is a matter of contingency, and not necessity, from the point of view of evolution. — StreetlightX
That’s a big assumption. — Wayfarer
That nicely encapsulates what I think as the very worst of ‘evolutionism’ - the fact that it keeps the mechanistic paradigm which seems to ‘explain’ the processes of life, but omits the very principle which distinguishes living things from machines. It’s where Darwinism has become a metaphor that’s gone rogue. — Wayfarer
...the comparison between language and technology shouldn't be so far fetched to the degree that language is indeed nothing other than a natural technology in it's own right... — StreetlightX
These are all just small examples from disparate fields, but I hope they begin to fill out a picture of how to understand evolution as not just an organic process, but an inorganic one as well. — StreetlightX
How do you define "language" and "technology"? — Galuchat
Human design (artifice) produces artificial inorganic objects (artefacta), but because human beings are organisms, the human design process is organic and evolves. Inorganic phenomena and artefacta do not design themselves or engage in selection (except in a metaphorical sense).
So, I wouldn't view evolution as substrate-independent. — Galuchat
...one of the functions of language (perhaps the most elementary, although not only one) is to enable us to communicate things which are not experienced. — StreetlightX
'Design' is not really relevant though, insofar as all natural evolution takes place without any reference to design. — StreetlightX
Don't organisms design themselves by engaging in natural selection? — Galuchat
First, natural selection happens to a population, and not single organisms...
Second, insofar as natural selection is something that happens to said population, it's not something that organisms 'engage in... — StreetlightX
1) Does natural selection also happen to populations of natural inorganic objects? — Galuchat
2) Is artificial selection something that happens to artificial populations (groups of individuals)?
If and only if there is heritable variation (changes in a developmental system [population + environment] that is passed down to another generation). — StreetlightX
I'm not sure what you mean by an 'artificial population'; 'artificial' and 'natural' qualify mechanisms of selection, but not populations. — StreetlightX
Then, how do rocks reproduce themselves? — Galuchat
What's the difference between modification and change? — frank
Evolution gave rise to life's precursors, — fdrake
what is important are the minimal ingredients needed for any evolutionary process to take place (to restate: (1) a population, (2) an environment, (3) a reproductive mechanism), and none of those ingredients implicitly - that is, by necessity - entail life. — StreetlightX
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