Do note that the political context includes the vilification of Trump, among various other caricatures likening him to Hitler and a fascist, in what is a blatant attempt to get some useful idiot to make an attempt on his life - something that has already happened twice and people were very quick to ignore or downplay in the fear it would increase his chance of being elected.

This is an old political trick, one that has been used to great success in my own (shameful) home country where Pim Fortuyn was murdered under very similar circumstances.

Not mentioned is that there are no federal domestic terrorism laws, but the FBI have successfully prosecuted many arson and vandalism attacks as acts of domestic terrorism, which makes the sentencing worse. The FBI defines domestic terrorism as, "Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature."

There is a Tesla Takedown Movement, with the demand “Sell Your Teslas. Dump Your Stock. Stop Musk Now.” According to the website, “Hurting Tesla is stopping Musk. Stopping Musk will help save lives and our democracy.”

There is also an online map called DOGEQUEST, referencing the government agency, and it doxxes Tesla Owners and dealerships. The icon on the map is a Molotov cocktail.

And, again, three professors and researchers of domestic terrorism and extremism come to the exact opposite conclusion to the dismissive ones posted above.

While no one has been injured or killed by these attacks, three professors and researchers of domestic terrorism and extremism tell NPR that they consider these cases to be acts of domestic terrorism.

3 people face federal charges for Tesla attacks. Are such acts domestic terrorism?

Lastly, the swatting of pro-Trump and musk political figures could lead to death.

‘I just fell to the ground’: Some of Trump and Musk’s most public supporters targeted in a wave of swatting incidents

What if it were Trump supporters doing something like this? Would you think the same way? — Tzeentch

It's not a what if. January 6th happened.



I think you don't get it. The US is going off a cliff. The toxic populism of Trump will get people to oppose him and there is nothing to calm things down. The polarization and the divide will just increase more. Trump has a loyal base and that will stand with him to the end and Trump, just as he was before in his earlier administration, only concentrated on it. Trump will just anger more and more his opposition, just like he has enraged the Canadians. For the Canadians it isn't just a trade war, Trump himself is a threat to the country. In the US Trump will continue disregard totally the separation of powers, and with the likely stagflation, he will make things worse. Trump wants to change things rapidly in such pace that it will end up in a chaotic mess.

Vandalism against a private company is already portrayed as domestic terrorism shows what the response will be and how Trump will respond to political protests against him. Of course, this is really is self defeating, because the tough stance against any protests will just increase the fears that people have against Trump. And add to that the dire economic situation, which will just get worse.

You see, in a functioning democracy when the shit really hits the fan, the political parties can put political competition aside and work together. I've seen it now twice in my country, with the opposition coming full on to side of the administration and politicians reacting extremely quickly in unison. First with the Pandemic, then with Putin's attack on February 24th 2022 attack. The American response to the Pandemic is here quite telling. Did it unify the country? No, of course not, it just increased the political polarization and distrust in the government. And that polarization is just going on, continuing, just increasing it's speed...



Americans are losing their ability to come together. Populism does this as it partitions people. Even if they would be hit by a meteorite or the goddam Yellowstone supervolcano would erupt, this wouldn't get the Americans to get together. The efforts of individual people would surely be praised, but likely there wouldn't be rallying to your government in this case. The political infighting would continue. We already have seen how Trump confronted the pandemic.

It's not a what if. January 6th happened. — ssu

Well, exactly. And look how they marketed that as a full blown attempt at a coup d'etat.

Now those same people are getting up in arms about this Tesla thing being seen in its proper political context. The same people, mind you, who were in such a rush to quickly forget two assassination attempts on the leader of the opposition.

It's perfectly appropriate to see this in the context of political violence/intimidation, but of course "the other side" is categorically unable to acknowledge their own wrongs.

It's partisan through and through.

Well, exactly. And look how they marketed that as a full blown attempt at a coup d'etat.

Now those same people are getting up in arms about this Tesla thing being seen in its proper political context. The same people, mind you, who were in such a rush to quickly forget two assassination attempts on the leader of the opposition. — Tzeentch

Your inability to tell the difference between vandalism by angry people and the storming of a parliamentary hearing buttressed by right wing activists waving confederate flags and other seccessionist movements, where the new President would be inaugurated is telling.

Well, exactly. And look how they marketed that as a full blown attempt at a coup d'etat. — Tzeentch

Exactly. It wasn't a planned autocoup, because then Trump would have prepared for it. Now he just through something of a Hail Mary pass at the last moment. Now the Secret Service drove Trump to the White House against his wishes where he watched in awe as his supporters stormed the Capitol. Was that inappropriate? Hell yes. Quite more than vandalism against Tesla cars.

It's perfectly appropriate to see this in the context of political violence/intimidation, but of course "the other side" is categorically unable to acknowledge their own wrongs.

It's partisan through and through. — Tzeentch

Indeed. And this is why everything is going to hell in a hand basket, as they say.

And people will be in shock if and when the violence erupts. All you need is a few people with a self loading rifles feeling they are under attack and decide to shoot back. And then you have people killed because of politics and that will be normalized. Have we just forgotten the George Floyd riots during the prior Donald Trump administration? Then it was blacks rioting because of police action. Now just how worse it will be when the rioting is against the Trump administration? Jan 6th rioters would die for their President. Do not underestimate their dedication.

Your inability to tell the difference between vandalism by angry people and the storming of a parliamentary hearing buttressed by right wing activists waving confederate flags and other seccessionist movements, where the new President would be inaugurated is telling. — Benkei

But this is the real problem here.

That crowd you are talking about is in power. It's the base that Trump listens to, because Trump isn't trying to build any bridges here to anybody else. Do you really think they wouldn't stand up for their President, if asked to? When Trump would declare that the deep state is there to overthrow the Trump presidency?

And I'll just repeat it here. Canadians are the example of what happens when Trump simply just dismisses the fact that polite neighbors might really get angry from his ideas. Not even the MAGA people themselves take the idea of annexing Canada and Greenland seriously, but Canada and Greenlanders and naturally the Danes do take this seriously. They that are confronted with Trump's hostility, will notice every Mark Rutte that simply laughs away the matter when Trump starts talking about annexing territories from it's allies. They won't see it as this some kind of Professional Wrestling excessive hyperbole that is just show. They will see it as reality, as Trump won't back down.

They take all the bullshit from Trump quite seriously. This is a way that really the serious polarization happens, because if an ultimate sign of hostility is to talk about annexation, then the ultimate act of hostility against a democracy is to question and not care about the separation of the powers and the US Constitution.

Americans are losing their ability to come together. — ssu

The reason for this is that the overton window has been blown open, especially on cultural issues. So sometimes you can't "come together" and you just need to fight off nasty ideas. I know as a democracy we pride ourselves on tolerance but that tolerance must have a limit. We cannot tolerate the rot that is occuring in our institutions of higher learning. We cannot tolerate the endless streams of illegal immigrants and gang members and sex traffickers making their way into the US. And we certainly cannot tolerate the idea that anyone can just be any gender/sex they feel without it leading to mass chaos. This is what brought Trump to power.

This is what brought Trump to power. — BitconnectCarlos

That and a bunch of neo-Nazis.

:up: :up: :up: :up:

we certainly cannot tolerate the idea that anyone can just be any gender/sex they feel without it leading to mass chaos. — BitconnectCarlos

This is ridiculous. The biggest problem with the gender identity issue is the intolerance that many people have with it. The only legitimate issue I see is sports participation, which can be unfair to biological girls. That could be dealt with without infringing on other freedoms of TG people.

endless streams of illegal immigrants and gang members and sex traffickers making their way into the US. — BitconnectCarlos

Immigration and asylum law needs to be updated, but the entry and residing of undocumented people shouldn't be conflated with gang activity and sex trafficking. Less that 4% of violent crimes are committed by undocumented immigrants. This is another case of Trump leveraging bias for political gain.

The only legitimate issue I see is sports participation — Relativist

Did you forget about locker rooms? Among others.

Then you have bathrooms. And prisons. And if we're talking military service, which group do transgender recruits go with? The men or the women? Or do they get their own personal drill instructors? I know some wonderful transgender people, but the idea that all gender identities simply must be respected on the legal level will usher in chaos.

Less that 4% of violent crimes are committed by undocumented immigrants. This is another case of Trump leveraging bias for political gain.

Still too much. That figure should be at 0.

Your inability to tell the difference between vandalism by angry people and the storming of a parliamentary hearing buttressed by right wing activists waving confederate flags and other seccessionist movements, where the new President would be inaugurated is telling. — Benkei

It has nothing to do with that.

I'm pointing towards a political climate that has already resulted in two assassination attempts on Trump that we know of, which is part of the context in which these recent events must be viewed.

It's simply disingenuous to hand-wave lesser forms of political unrest as though this context doesn't exist.

Whether this trend will continue after Trump's presidency remains to be seen. I'm not convinced that it will.

It's also a question of whether the picture the media is trying to sketch corresponds with reality and the views of the average American.

because Tesla is Musk’s sacred cow, and Musk has successfully bought himself a direct line to lawmakers and regulators, we must all now pretend that this is a crime of national consequence. — Benkei

Exactly. It’s just hilarious to watch. The spineless, principle-less, fact-free partisans are such fantastic hypocrites it’s quite incredible.

January 6th: patriots peacefully protesting.
Tesla cars destroyed: domestic terrorism.

I’m not in favor of destroying Teslas. I don’t like seeing it, and I don’t think it’s great strategy (although Tesla shares ARE plummeting). It’s the hypocrisy that I get a kick out of.

It does appear to me as downplaying - at least, when we consider the probable reaction if the opposite had happened. — Tzeentch

It’ll always appear as downplaying. Take a look at January 6th. What’s that, exactly? I myself don’t think it’s what the democrats make it out to be — but it’s also not what the republicans try to spin it as.

If Trump supporters were burning Teslas, I wouldn’t like it. I don’t like it now. But I would be pushing back against those that spin it. In this case I see much exaggeration. I don’t see that many people in power — or on philosophy forums — coming out in defense of it.

Well, exactly. And look how they marketed that as a full blown attempt at a coup d'etat.

And if they had found and lynched Mike Pence. Or found Nancy Pelosi.

Your and NOS4A2’s attempts to normalise the tearing down of the constitution by a populist is pretty mediocre. Why should we continue to repeatedly explain this and point out reality when you just ignore it and repeat the same mediocre platitudes?

Attempted or succesful assassinations of the President of the USA is nothing new or interesting. Why do you think there's a secret service? It's estimated at 6-8 serious attempts per year and thousands of threats that need to be investigated regardless of sitting President although I'm sure Trump illicits even more with his destructive behaviour. So, no that one became public is not relevant context.

Why would a European be partisan over US politics? — Tzeentch

My brother in Christ Denmark has opinions about Greenland and every European country is in hybrid warfare with Russia.

It’ll always appear as downplaying. Take a look at January 6th. What’s that, exactly? I myself don’t think it’s what the democrats make it out to be — but it’s also not what the republicans try to spin it as.

If Trump supporters were burning Teslas, I wouldn’t like it. I don’t like it now. But I would be pushing back against those that spin it. In this case I see much exaggeration. I don’t see that many people in power — or on philosophy forums — coming out in defense of it. — Mikie

Yeah, I think that's fair enough.

At the same time, amid a poisoned political climate, these somewhat low-key events are no longer so innocent.

The spin should be recognized for what it is, but simply dismissing it as 'business as usual, nothing to see here' whenever it's convenient (aka: when it's directed at one's political opponents) is the other side of the extreme, and that's what prompted my initial reaction.

Did you forget about locker rooms? Among others.

Then you have bathrooms. And prisons. And if we're talking military service, which group do transgender recruits go with? The men or the women? Or do they get their own personal drill instructors?. — BitconnectCarlos

Trump's actions haven't solved those problems, it ignores them. For example, where SHOULD a transgender person go to the bathroom? Biological women taking testosterone develop a masculine physical appearance. If they use the ladies' room, this will frighten many.

Re: the military- drill them with their biological sex. Trump has denied them the right to serve at all.

I know some wonderful transgender people, but the idea that all gender identities simply must be respected on the legal level will usher in chaos

Not sure what you are referring to. My view is that they shouldn't be discriminated against. This doesn't mean a trans-woman should be treated identically to a biological woman. It's reasonable to debate what accommodations are appropriate, because I don't think there's an obvious, universal answer. Trump has solved no problems in this regard, because it simply ignores the reality.

I'm pointing towards a political climate that has already resulted in two assassination attempts on Trump — Tzeentch

Ever occur to you that maybe Trump himself had something to do with that? I cannot think of any assassination or attempt that was the result of "political climate." They were all the result of the screwed-up thinking of the individual(s). But Trump has hurt and injured thousands of people, and there is zero doubt in my mind that he is directly responsible for deaths not otherwise happening. And if any of those victims assassinated Trump or tried to, who could say that was not justice itself!

You and nos4 defend Trump seemingly in favor of him and at the expense of everything else. Why? Where is your sense of proportion, reason, compassion, empathy, justice? If some person came to your house and acted like Trump, would you fete and favour and celebrate him? Of course not, one hopes! So why him?

You and nos4 defend Trump seemingly in favor of him and at the expense of everything else. — tim wood

wat

The spin should be recognized for what it is, but simply dismissing it as 'business as usual, nothing to see here' whenever it's convenient (aka: when it's directed at one's political opponents) is the other side of the extreme — Tzeentch

Oh it’s definitely not business as usual. But I think we all know we’re well beyond that.

From my perspective, the Republicans put this train in motion, starting with Palin and the tea party (maybe even the Contract with America) and McConnell’s Senate shenanigans. Their media hasn’t helped; in their attempt to justify their unpopular agenda they’ve had to undermine truth and science and mathematics and reality far more than Dems.

The democrats are spineless corporatists and bureaucrats, but as similar as both parties really are I don’t see them as equal either— they’re not the ones that took us off the rails. So I’m certainly biased in that way — but I think I’m correct to be.

Ever occur to you that maybe Trump himself had something to do with that? — tim wood

I think this is fair. Compare how Obama was treated in conservative media — he held a coffee while saluting! He wore a tan suit! He asked for dijon mustard! He’s a Muslim! He wants to make himself king! Not to mention endless references to Hitler. For years and years this happened. I couldn’t stand Obama, but it was almost never criticism of doing too LITTLE for working people, or for bailing out banks and the auto industry, or for betraying people on the public option, or for the drone wars. When he was criticized for this, it was minimal— largely because conservatives applaud much of it themselves.

“Liberal” media are also hysterical and largely unfair. The Russia stuff from the beginning was obviously ridiculous to anyone not wearing DNC blinders, the stuff about not disavowing David Duke was BS, the stuff about Charlottesville was BS, the pathetic worship of Robert Mueller, etc.

BUT — and this is where the “all politicians lie” and “both parties are the same” simplemindedness breaks down — Trump has beyond a doubt given them far more to work with. His lies are more numerous and more blatant, his corruption and lack of knowledge about the world, the economy, the military, the government, history, science, philosophy, art — everything except self-promotion— is unlike anything that’s come before. And he’s great at dog-whistling and implications, always making sure (probably thanks to years of being sued and dealing with lawyers) he has plausible deniability.

Imagine Obama likening his opposition to vermin and communists, or implying or explicitly advocating for jailing them. Or saying the election was stolen? What would the reaction on Fox News have been, when they blew a gasket over a condiment preference?

Trump is indeed different. You can’t whip your side into a frenzy and become ever-more extreme in your rhetoric and advocacy of violence and then be surprised when there’s an assassination attempt. I don’t like assassination attempts either — no one serious does — but once again the hypocrisy was so heavy afterwards it was nearly unbearable.

It’s an endless circle of calling out hypocrisy. Both sides are usually correct when they do so. That doesn’t make them equal. Republicans are simply more dangerous and bigger hypocrites. If saying that automatically makes one “biased,” fine. Then we need more bias— because it’s true.

The reason for this is that the overton window has been blown open, especially on cultural issues. So sometimes you can't "come together" and you just need to fight off nasty ideas. I know as a democracy we pride ourselves on tolerance but that tolerance must have a limit. We cannot tolerate the rot that is occuring in our institutions of higher learning. — BitconnectCarlos

I thought you would see it now in Canada, where I assume you are living. It's not about the Overton window been blown open, when you question the sovereignty of a state and it's territory. Culture war issues are totally insignificant and meaningless political discourse compared to questioning the borders of another state, which is similar to summoning up the Devil. It goes far further than any "Overton window" of what things are correct to talk about as it is a clear existential threat one is making. And this was evident when JD Vance gave his infamous speech at Munich, which seems to have been more focused for his MAGA audience back home. The ludicrous idea from Vance that "Russia isn't a threat", but the Culture war issues and the selective idea of "freedom of speech" are the problems of Europe shows clearly this tone deaf and overtly hostile attitude to countries that are really preparing for war. The true colors of the Trump administration have been shown, even if diplomatically everybody is just silent about the issue and hope that this is only a temporary collapse. For now, it's just some random French senator that can tell how things are, that we have a Nero in Washington. But that diplomacy will wear off, if and when Trump continues with his "great television".

So you can repeat all the culture war issues of DEI and the libtard snowflakes in the universities, which are as petty meaningless as burning flags or taking the knee when the national anthem is played compared to the trashing of the security system that have held for 80 years and kept our peace until today. To think that culture war issues are somehow at the same level of issues of war and peace, of German leader saying that Europe has to go independent of the US, or of the Polish leadership is openly discussing getting nuclear weapons, is hilarious. Europe is promising to rearm itself at breakneck speed pouring far more into defense than Russia and China combined. The threat of war is higher than any time of since perhaps the Cuban Missile crisis. The European rearmament started because of Putin, not because of Trump. But yes, now the crescendo in the rearmament is because of Trump, the leader which we cannot trust.

We cannot tolerate the endless streams of illegal immigrants and gang members and sex traffickers making their way into the US. — BitconnectCarlos

And neither do we, even if in your imagination of a libtard Gay Europe you might not perhaps understand that. And it doesn't take a fucking populist fringe party to bring that tougher stance immigration as the MAGA people seem to think.

And we certainly cannot tolerate the idea that anyone can just be any gender/sex they feel without it leading to mass chaos. This is what brought Trump to power. — BitconnectCarlos

And did you vote for Trump to annex Canada, Greenland and Panama? Did you vote for Trump to destroy the alliances actually that have benefited the US, created the Pax Americana, have made NATO countries to stand alongside you when Article 5 was implemented after 9/11? Did you vote for higher prices and economic recession? Because that's what you seem to get now.

Whether this trend will continue after Trump's presidency remains to be seen. I'm not convinced that it will. — Tzeentch

And actually Putin has to think the same way here. Yes, the Kremlin can now acknowledge that the US is in line with them, yet Trump's friendliness is only temporary. Hence best to play this as the useful idiot. I don't see how Trump will repair this to be better. He is fixated in his own ideas and there are no safety rails anymore as there were in Trump's first administration, but people around him eager competing in pleasing his whims.

It's also a question of whether the picture the media is trying to sketch corresponds with reality and the views of the average American. — Tzeentch

Well, the country is polarized. That's for sure. Yet I think many simply don't see just what is happening around them. I genuinely think that there are only few if any Americans share Trump's delusions of the grandeur of annexing Canada. And many I guess do think that having allies is a good thing. Or that the Constitution should be followed especially by those in power.

Ehm...

French scientist denied US entry after phone messages critical of Trump found
^{— Robert Mackey · Guardian · Mar 19, 2025}

that reflect hatred toward Trump and can be described as terrorism

They need an emergency meeting because their meal ticket is vanishing. Fund your own research.

Why are they like this? The EU has a soy meltdown because they have to fund their own defense. It’s like an unweaned child who never learns to take care of themselves, and when finally set free to stand on their own feet, they spin around and spite their parents. They say the US is untrustworthy, when they have been living off the efforts of the American taxpayer.

Trump's actions haven't solved those problems, it ignores them. For example, where SHOULD a transgender person go to the bathroom? — Relativist

This problem is intractable. You'd honestly want Trump to legislate on this? It's too thorny. Let the passable transwomen go into the women's restroom and the ones that don't pass into the men's, but of course it's never so easy because passing is subjective and subject to change.

Re: the military- drill them with their biological sex. Trump has denied them the right to serve at all. — Relativist

A judged blocked it. In any case, I would not want e.g. Blaire White or Nikita Dragon training with the men. Estrogen also causes one to lose muscle. Even if it didn't the thought of men showering and changing with transgender women is insane.

Not sure what you are referring to. My view is that they shouldn't be discriminated against. This doesn't mean a trans-woman should be treated identically to a biological woman. — Relativist

You aren't familiar with the view that one's gender identity should be respected? "Trans women are women" is a common slogan. If you're carving out another category for them you're not as progressive as you might think.

Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez drew a crowd, I guess the opposition is alive:

34,000 People. Biggest Political Rally in Denver Since 2008. (— Bernie Sanders · Mar 22, 2025 · 2m:3s)


AOC and Bernie Sanders draw thousands of people at 'Fighting Oligarchy' rally in Denver (— Sudiksha Kochi · USA TODAY · Mar 22, 2025)