I've been meaning to comment here since morning, but I've been too busy...

However, anxiety over material goods is surely something that every philosopher would point out an issue of the uneducated or unenlightened. — Posty McPostface

Oh wow, when did @unenlightened say that anxiety over material goods is an issue for him?

Due to the fact that that which is of the material world is ever changing and not persistent. So, does this make anxiety irrelevant if we realize that it is a feeling produced by an overly desirous mind or lustrious appetite towards things? — Posty McPostface

But surely, the inner aspect is also always changing too.

Thus, is this professed attitude of indifference towards material goods the right way to address and reduce anxiety? — Posty McPostface

I don't necessarily think so. One way is certainly the nihilistic, defeatist way. You notice that getting or holding onto things in the world is difficult, you experience anxiety, so you renounce the former, to free yourself of anxiety. But what if instead of meeting the uncertainty of the world with anxiety, you met it with confidence in yourself and your own ability to navigate different situations to your advantage? What if, like a cat, you had the ability to always fall right side up?

Because, you see, anxiety isn't the only way to respond to the problem of lacking control over the external world. Anxiety is only elicited as a response because, somewhere deep down, you believe you may not be able to handle what the world throws (or can throw) at you. If, on the contrary, you could get that self-esteem and inner confidence in your own ability, you would interpret uncertainty as inducing excitement, not anxiety or fear.

I would say that out of all the philosophies, Buddhism seems to be the most effective in terms of reducing perceived anxiety and turning it into a means to inner enlightenment. Would that be something you agree with? — Posty McPostface

Well, you can find the same things in the Christian tradition. For example, you can read what I'm reading now, Into The Silent Land by Martin Laird. It's a book about what Christians call contemplation, which is almost identical to what Buddhists call mindfulness meditation.

Oh wow, when did unenlightened say that anxiety over material goods is an issue for him? — Agustino

As it goes, I'm pretty comfortable, thanks. But if I was on the streets, without health cover, without a regular income, I'd be bloody anxious. I'd say that anxiety and unhappiness on that material level is - natural, functional, realistic, sensible, virtuous. Get your shit together if you possibly can! And if you can't, I might give you a hand, or someone more comfortable might, or else you're screwed.

But what's the relation between anxiety, (and let's notice that some people much more materially endowed than me are still anxious, materially,) and depression? Is it even possible to be anxious and depressed at the same time, or are they antagonistic? Do we even agree what we're talking about?

I tend to think that one de-presses a feeling, that might be anxiety, or anger or some other unacceptable mode of being. So depression might be a response to anxiety, when getting off your arse does not seem a viable option. Depression is in this case the active negation of anxiety.

But to negate, to depress, to deny, is not to ameliorate, any more that the endless accumulation of wealth ameliorates that underlying material anxiety. The Buddhist psychology, as I understand it is that to seek to reduce anxiety is a mistake that perpetuates it. Instead, look at it, own it, absorb it, be it, live with it, and it will evaporate. They call this 'mindfulness'.

But if I was on the streets, without health cover, without a regular income, I'd be bloody anxious. — unenlightened

You, because the change is sudden. I would imagine people who are used to living on the street frequently experience apathy & depression more often than anxiety.

I'd say that anxiety and unhappiness on that material level is - natural, functional, realistic, sensible, virtuous. — unenlightened

Sure, it's pretty much unavoidable, as I said.

or else you're screwed. — unenlightened

lol, doesn't sound encouraging.

But to negate, to depress, to deny, is not to ameliorate, any more that the endless accumulation of wealth ameliorates that underlying material anxiety. The Buddhist psychology, as I understand it is that to seek to reduce anxiety is a mistake that perpetuates it. — unenlightened

But see, this sort of ignores the functional role of anxiety, and how things can be turned around. As I said in my previous post, there is a reason why you experience anxiety, and it often has to do with some deep-seated beliefs about yourself and your capacities. I'm not talking about anxiety when you're actually facing a threat, and looking for a way to avoid it - I'm talking about the meta-level anxiety, that seems to be there, out of proportion. Underlying everything, there does seem to be the belief, on a feeling level, that you won't be able to deal with whatever bad thing you imagine might happen. That's what generates anxiety, and you struggle to secure a way that can certainly deal with it. So it seems to be a lack of self-belief.

Underlying everything, there does seem to be the belief, on a feeling level, that you won't be able to deal with whatever bad thing you imagine might happen. That's what generates anxiety, and you struggle to secure a way that can certainly deal with it. So it seems to be a lack of self-belief. — Agustino

It seems to make sense (not tomato sense, idiot spellcheck) but one can always imagine that with which one cannot cope, however exaggerated one's self belief - you might get motor-neurone disease tomorrow, just as the economy collapses and... I'm pretty fucking competent, dude, but shit can still happen. No, rather I think that the development of self-esteem is another cover-up of anxiety.

It seems to make sense (not tomato sense, idiot spellcheck) but one can always imagine that with which one cannot cope, however exaggerated one's self belief - you might get motor-neurone disease tomorrow, just as the economy collapses and... I'm pretty fucking competent, dude, but shit can still happen. — unenlightened

Well yeah, but very unlikely - so unlikely that there is no point taking these possibilities into account in the absence of evidence. I mean, doing so would be quite irrational - it would be like thinking the sun may not rise tomorrow, and taking that possibility seriously. That's again something you'll have to deal with as it happens if it does.

No, rather I think that the development of self-esteem is another cover-up of anxiety. — unenlightened

But anxiety isn't primal - it's developed as a way to respond to threats and guard yourself. If you had no anxiety, you'd be unable to respond to threats. But when your anxiety response doesn't function well, you focus on either very improbable threats, or take relatively small threats as if they were much bigger than they really are - the response becomes counter-productive. If on the other hand you had a sense of security in yourself - just the sense itself will be enough, so that the question of such pathological anxiety would never arise - because you'd understand how improbable such threats are, or how relatively insignificant most of the other smaller threats are.

Depression is in this case the active negation of anxiety. — unenlightened

It seems it would be more apt to say it is the passive negation, or perhaps better, nihilation, of anxiety.

I'd rather be depressed than anxious. — Posty McPostface

They are both very attractive options so it's always a conundrum: Bleak despair or blazing terror?

Some people seem to experience only depression OR anxiety, but it seems like the two alternate, or combine for many people.

Some people are anxious about their material things, but I think it's just as likely that one will be anxious about immaterial things like love, status, friendship, being isolated, and such. Our immaterial possessions are harder to guard than our tangible goods. A fire alarm, sprinkler system, termite poisons, and the like can protect the dry goods, but how do you protect love, status, belonging, friendship, peace, self-regard, esteem, and so on?

There is a distiction between generalized anxiety (and depression) and situational anxiety. If I lose my job, my insurance, become sick, get evicted, etc., I will be anxious, but that would be normal. If I weren't, that might be a bigger problem. The problem lies with those whose anxiety arises from no particular event and cannot be controlled and it interferes with their well being. It's for that reason that advising someone who is anxious to simply eliminate those anxiety rendering events from his life isn't terribly helpful. Some simply don't have identifiable events. I'd expect there are methods to reduce the anxiety, but elimination would be doubtful for the truly afflicted.

how do you protect love, status, belonging, friendship, peace, self-regard, esteem, and so on? — Bitter Crank

With a big warm hug. Now come over here you big lug.

Minor to moderate anxiety seems to be the natural state. If you're completely relaxed, there's probably something wrong that you're not aware of, and being aware of this possibility will end your state of relaxation.

Quite literally we have to "take our minds off things" to relax. Our awareness has to be limited. We "shut down" a bit.

I'd expect there are methods to reduce the anxiety — Hanover

One of the problems of anxiety is that there are drugs which offer speedy, effective relief: benzodiazepines (Xanax, Ativan, and others; some people still rely on barbiturates. Then there's alcohol and various recreational drugs). They do a good job of suppressing anxiety, but people become acclimated to the drugs; gradually increased doses are needed and eventually they just don't work anymore. In the long run one has to find other solutions. In the long run we're all dead, as John Maynard Keynes observed.

Benzos also work for one's difficult-to-control anger and rage.

I would like to say that depression and anxiety are not antagonistic rather they complement each other. One can be depressed about being anxious all the time or the other way around, being anxious over being depressed (my predominant state of mind).

The anxious utter cognitive distortion thought tells me: *If only I weren't depressed, I'd be able to do the task at hand.*

The depressed cognitive distortion goes: *If only I weren't so anxious I'd be able to get out of the house more.*

Two sides of the same coin?

*If only I weren't depressed, I'd be able to do the task at hand.* — Posty McPostface

That depends, there are some tasks I struggle with. I used to go to the gym almost everyday, and I had kept that ritual for quite a few years. And now, during and after the Christmas holidays, I went only once so far - I experience it as a lack of motivation, I just don't feel motivated. I wouldn't say I'm depressed, it's just lacking in motivation. It is compounded by the fact that it's so cold outside.

*If only I weren't so anxious I'd be able to get out of the house more.* — Posty McPostface

I think you need to have goals though, and goals will dictate what you have to do or not do. From my observation some people seem to think "I need to get out of the house more", just for the sake of it, or because others are telling them so. But that doesn't work very well - you need to have your own goals, that you want to achieve for their own sake. For example, one goal could be to achieve physical fitness - that goal would give you reasons to get out of the house. Another goal would be not to rely on your parents for groceries, income, etc. - that could get you out of the house too, but for example, if you work from home like I do, it won't :P .

But anxiety isn't primal - it's developed as a way to respond to threats and guard yourself. If you had no anxiety, you'd be unable to respond to threats. — Agustino

I'm not sure what you mean by primal? The way I carve it, primal emotion is the immediate response to the environment. So I'm walking, and come across a snake, and there is a response. I freeze, I'm focused on the threat, and deciding what to do. I'll call that fear. Next time I'm walking in the same place, I'm probably anxious, looking out for snakes. And that is secondary, because it is a response to something internal; not a snake, but a memory of snake.

And then I am aware of being anxious, and think how it is uncomfortable, it's spoiling the joy of my walk. And that is a tertiary emotion.

Now all of this is perfectly functional, and maybe the tertiary feeling leads me to educate myself about which snakes are dangerous, to wear snake-proof boots, to carry a cleft stick, and so on, and these precautions reduce my anxiety, and also my fear, the next time I meet a snake - I am prepared. But maybe I have another response, that is not effective in reducing anxiety and fear. I might just try and stay away from snake country. Then I have deprived myself of that walk, but I have also made anxiety the dictator, and given it control of my life. It may seem that I have avoided the anxiety, but actually I have increased it.

How depressing! That is to say, my response to my failure to deal with my anxiety, is to then pretend that I don't really want to go for a walk at all, and that is I suppose, a quaternary feeling.

But maybe I have another response, that is not effective in reducing anxiety and fear. I might just try and stay away from snake country. Then I have deprived myself of that walk, but I have also made anxiety the dictator, and given it control of my life. It may seem that I have avoided the anxiety, but actually I have increased it. — unenlightened

Well, wouldn't such a response be appropriate in certain cases? I mean, some activities really are very dangerous, and danger is frequent, and not rare in them. If it's at all possible, without compromising your goals, wouldn't it be wise for you to stay away from them?

The only activity where I have partially adopted this attitude is driving. Quite honestly, because of the traffic here, violence on the road, serious accidents or legal issues some of my friends had to face due to driving, and just the general stress of it, I avoid it if I can. Some situations, it's not possible to - like, for example, one time I had to take my dog from the vet, and there's no way to do that except by car - so then I did drive. But normal going to and fro in the city, I use public transport or sometimes taxi. Would you say that I'm being irrational in such a situation and governed by anxiety? To my mind, it just doesn't seem to be worth the psychological effort, given the relatively small benefits.

And all this goes back to my initial point that whether the "anxiety" response is appropriate or not is circumstantial - if you are capable to adequately judge the risks and benefits, then I would say that your anxiety response isn't off.

In the example you gave about the walk, you have to consider the probabilities. Maybe you went on your walk using the same route for more than 100 times, and it was only once that you met the snake. So then you might consider the probability of encountering a snake to be quite low. And the event of encountering a snake, failing to see it, AND getting bitten by it is even more rare. So you take some precautionary measures with boots, and you're careful on your walk, not absent-minded, that should be more than enough.

So in that case, avoiding the walk seems too extreme of a response. There are certain benefits from going on your walk - exercise, fresh air, helps you have a clear mind, etc. And it's not worth forgoing these benefits because of a relatively rare threat, which you can take some measures to protect yourself against.

BUT - now suppose that your country was at war, and there was active conflict going on around where you usually walked. I think it would be insane to argue that if your anxiety makes you no longer enjoy walking, that would be a pathological response. In that case, I think it would be an absolutely normal response to cease your walking, since the dangers you'd expose yourself to in the activity now outweigh the benefits.

Well, wouldn't such a response be appropriate in certain cases? — Agustino

Sure. But isn't interested so much in those situations, but finds himself in the situation where his anxiety feels constricting, unreasonable, and unnecessary. Feelings are functional in all sorts of ways, but one can take a wrong turn, and then they can be dysfunctional. I'm using a simple example to illustrate where one can go wrong. In the case of the primary response, the shock, the fear, is unavoidable and probably appropriate - the snake might be harmless, but better safe than dead. So the anxiety from the memory of that is inevitable too, that's learning. The problem comes when one reacts to anxiety as if it were fear.

Snake -> fear -> avoid.
But:
Thought of snake -> anxiety -> approach.

Approaching the thought of snake, one learns about snakes, and perhaps one concludes that snake pits are not worth walking in, or perhaps one concludes that snakes are wonderful creatures that one can happily interact with, given a few precautions. So my conclusion is very simple: Do not avoid anxiety, approach, investigate, find the source.

Sure. But ↪Posty McPostface isn't interested so much in those situations, but finds himself in the situation where his anxiety feels constricting, unreasonable, and unnecessary. — unenlightened

Well, Posty hasn't outlined what exactly he's trying to achieve that the anxiety is stopping him from achieving. So it's difficult to understand what it means that the "anxiety feels constricting, unreasonable, and unnecessary" - that seems to be our assumption, and certainly what he's telling us, but we can't decide that without understanding the context in greater depth.

Approaching the thought of snake, one learns about snakes, and perhaps one concludes that snake pits are not worth walking in, or perhaps one concludes that snakes are wonderful creatures that one can happily interact with, given a few precautions. — unenlightened

How does one learn about snakes by approaching the thought of snakes?

So my conclusion is very simple: Do not avoid anxiety, approach, investigate, find the source. — unenlightened

Well, in the example you gave, wouldn't the source be the encounter with the snake? That's where the anxiety originated from - but I have a feeling that this is not what you mean. So what is this "source" that you're referring to?

Anxiety is only elicited as a response because, somewhere deep down, you believe you may not be able to handle what the world throws (or can throw) at you.

...

As I said in my previous post, there is a reason why you experience anxiety, and it often has to do with some deep-seated beliefs about yourself and your capacities. — Agustino

I would not agree with this. I would think that anxiety is deeper seated than beliefs. Having an anxious condition, or disposition, leads one to feel anxiety toward certain beliefs, not vise versa. Anxiety is probably developed directly from the condition of one's metabolic system, and manifests, or in some cases festers as anxiety concerning specific beliefs.

There is a distiction between generalized anxiety (and depression) and situational anxiety. — Hanover

That is what I think, but I also think that anxiety itself, properly exposed and described, is of the generalized variety. Situational anxiety is just the particular manifestation of general anxiety. And if this is the case, then anxiety in general can in principle, be dealt with through channeling it toward appropriate situations. Maintaining numerous objects of anxiety may help to maintain a high level of activity, and avoid obsession. Inactivity and depression may feed off each other.

One of the problems of anxiety is that there are drugs which offer speedy, effective relief: benzodiazepines (Xanax, Ativan, and others; some people still rely on barbiturates. Then there's alcohol and various recreational drugs). They do a good job of suppressing anxiety, but people become acclimated to the drugs; gradually increased doses are needed and eventually they just don't work anymore. In the long run one has to find other solutions. In the long run we're all dead, as John Maynard Keynes observed. — Bitter Crank

One ought not consider anxiety to always be an evil to be suppressed with drugs. That, as you imply, is a problem. Anxiety is very closely related to things like anticipation, and ambition, which may be beneficial. In other words, there are probably more productive ways of dealing with most instances of anxiety, than the attempt to suppress it. Suppressing anxiety may lead to depression. The issue being one of maintaining balance. As the metabolism of each individual human being varies, so does our need for activity.

I would say that out of all the philosophies, Buddhism seems to be the most effective in terms of reducing perceived anxiety and turning it into a means to inner enlightenment. Would that be something you agree with? — Posty McPostface

Buddhism is a fundamental philosophy of how excessive desires creates unhealthy spiritual, emotional, mental, and physical lives. It is simple and straightforward. Desiring a "solution" via Yoga, Buddhism, Tai Chi, or otherwise is counterproductive. What is productive is the advice of the Eight Noble Advice Wich is to seek the Middle Way, moderation.

I've observed long-time Buddhist practitioners who are every bit as stressed out as anyone else. Too much desire. Too much obedience. Not enough variety in Life.

What I have done in my life is study many forms of health practices including Tai Chi, Qigong, Mediation, Yoga, various sports and arts, etc. At times I've been stressed out. That is part if learning in Life. However, I've learned that it will pass and if I am in good health I will be fine. So far, so good. I'm 66, in terrific health, and very active. I practice moderation in everything.

Anxiety is probably developed directly from the condition of one's metabolic system — Metaphysician Undercover

So in your opinion, anxiety is biological, and the anxious person cannot do anything involving the alteration of beliefs, to reduce anxiety?

If so, why is it that cognitive behavioural therapy, which effectively focuses on addressing and questioning the patient's beliefs, is so successful as a first-measure treatment of anxiety?

anxiety is deeper seated than beliefs. — Metaphysician Undercover

I disagree with you - a belief is what translates in a way of acting. If I act a certain way, then that is what I really believe. Beliefs go deeper than what one is conscious of - we can have beliefs we're not even aware of.

I would not agree with this. I would think that anxiety is deeper seated than beliefs. Having an anxious condition, or disposition, leads one to feel anxiety toward certain beliefs, not vise versa. Anxiety is probably developed directly from the condition of one's metabolic system, and manifests, or in some cases festers as anxiety concerning specific beliefs. — Metaphysician Undercover

Indeed. Anxiety may not relate to any knowledge, belief or information. It can come seemingly uncaused, but due to chemical factors in the brain, or can even be induced electromagnetically.
Coffee and other stimulants can cause anxiety. Other drugs can make it go away.
Feelings are always deeper that thoughts. Thinking can offer the conscious mind a reason for the feeling of anxiety, and can help to alleviate those feelings; but there is a good physiological reason that the passions are more fundamental.
Anyone whose been in love with the wrong person knows this. Reason can cure the feeling, but it can take a long time. And there is no way you can simply decide with reason to fall in love.

So in your opinion, anxiety is biological, and the anxious person cannot do anything involving the alteration of beliefs, to reduce anxiety? — Agustino

No. that's not what I said. I said that anxiety gets directed toward particular beliefs, so the anxious person can, with conscious effort, direct the anxiety toward various activities, aiming for a balanced life.

I disagree with you - a belief is what translates in a way of acting. If I act a certain way, then that is what I really believe. Beliefs go deeper than what one is conscious of - we can have beliefs we're not even aware of. — Agustino

I do not believe that a belief translates into a way of acting. I think that's a simplistic notion. It is very clear, that we cannot deduce, in a necessary way, the existence of any particular belief from the observance of any particular action, nor can we demonstrate that any particular belief will necessitate any particular action. Life is far more complex than how you make it out to be.

And, since "belief" is commonly defined as an opinion, or acceptance of an idea, I think that your claim that we can have beliefs which we are not aware of, is contradictory.

Anxiety may not relate to any knowledge, belief or information. It can come seemingly uncaused, but due to chemical factors in the brain, or can even be induced electromagnetically. — charleton

Right, that is my experience with anxiety. it always comes on as a general feeling, over my entire body, especially in the chest area, almost like an extreme form of anticipation, as if my whole body is prepared to act, but with no particular act being imminent. This inclines me to think about what needs to be done. I may experience it day after day, but if I manage to maintain a high level of activity, directing my mind toward this and that, as important objects, and things already determined as needing to be done, this is effective in expending the energy build up, subduing the anxiety and the urge to think about what needs to be done. If I allow the anxiety to well up, I may be overcome by irrational thoughts and beliefs.

If I allow the anxiety to well up, I may be overcome by irrational thoughts and beliefs. — Metaphysician Undercover

Yes this can be most debilitating.
When I lived in the US near my Dad in the 80s, he would all of a sudden just get anxious. He found himself gripped by utter panic, and for no apparent reason. These got so bad that he consulted a doctor who suggested that his addiction to speed (that he was prescribed for weight loss), 20 years earlier may have been to blame. It seems that it was a well documented response.
Other's I have known have got the same response to heights, crowds, and some animals.
I invited a friend to follow me in his car to my local University. Despite leaving at the same moment as me, the journey of 2 miles took him at least five more minutes. When I asked him what happened he said he had to avoid the overpass as he was scared of heights. The same guy disappeared one day when us a group of his friends went to the end of Brighton pier. I was left with strangers since he could not stand to see the water through the cracks in the boardwalk! Panic had made him flee!

For each of these examples no belief had any bearing, they being rational persons, whose fears were contrary to reason.

Sure. But ↪Posty McPostface isn't interested so much in those situations, but finds himself in the situation where his anxiety feels constricting, unreasonable, and unnecessary. — unenlightened

The anxiety is unreal.

Does that mean that it's all made up in the head and has no real cause or need to be alarmed? If someone has all their basic needs taken care of, then is there any real cause or need to be anxious, or does Maslow's hierarchy of needs actually represent the needs of people?

I find regular doses of Vitamin D3 to be very helpful.

Right, that is my experience with anxiety. it always comes on as a general feeling, over my entire body, especially in the chest area, almost like an extreme form of anticipation, as if my whole body is prepared to act, but with no particular act being imminent. This inclines me to think about what needs to be done. I may experience it day after day, but if I manage to maintain a high level of activity, directing my mind toward this and that, as important objects, and things already determined as needing to be done, this is effective in expending the energy build up, subduing the anxiety and the urge to think about what needs to be done. If I allow the anxiety to well up, I may be overcome by irrational thoughts and beliefs. — Metaphysician Undercover

When I had a major car accident, this feeling was ongoing for months after and it was a long while later that realised it was PTSD from the accident. Just prior to the accident, I was being harassed with indirect threats and it re-surfaced some childhood memories to add to the anxious confusion and I was always physically shaking. I could not sleep, eat, and for some weird reason was terribly afraid as though everyone and everything was 'bad' and because I was out of work and on my own together with an injury, the severity got worse that in the space of four months I lost 15kg.

All I probably needed was a bit of a hug at that time and someone to say it is going to be OK but some of us don't have that luxury.



Physical reactions were from an increase in stress hormones including glucocorticoid and where the amygdala (limbic system) that forms our emotional responses remains activated for a long time after the trauma and so one continues to feel like they are identifying threats and risks when there is actually nothing there as though that moment of shock and anxiety you feel from the accident remains long afterwards. Because of the elevation of glucocorticoid, the hippocampus is also interrupted and this area of the brain is where new memories are formed and stored as something past-tense. So, the person cannot make a memory past-tense and the experience - though not present in the physical world - remains and so the anxiety remains amplified. This is why I could not sleep and all the chemical imbalances altered my mood dramatically, making me terribly afraid.

I recovered from all of that by communicating it, talking about it as psychotherapeutic treatment that enabled me to bring up to consciousness things I was unable to articulate with language (since we do not understand or know it). It is a massive task and mine was extra huge that it took years of work to really overcome it all and my awareness of the process now has enabled me to block/ward off any potential threats of anxiety in the future. Mostly, my eating habits, working life, building a new environment and space for myself and in particular the removal of toxic people helped me get my shit together.

This gives me perfect peace. I have not experienced a moment of anxiety for over six months and I doubt that I ever will now that I understand it.

Does that mean that it's all made up in the head and has no real cause or need to be alarmed? — Posty McPostface

No, not at all. It is in the head in the sense that it is a response to memory, but the memory is real. Snakes are real, fear of snakes is an instinctive reaction. Anxiety about snakes is a natural response to traumatic experience of snakes. There is good cause to fear snakes, they can kill.

The problem is that the memory is not just of snake, but of the smell of grass in the sunshine, warmth at one's back, the glittering of hot stones, the flapping of wings of a passing bird. And any of these becomes a trigger for anxiety too; not just that place, but anywhere remotely like it. This is why avoiding anxiety is debilitating; it's too global.

So if the smell of grass makes you anxious, stay with it and find the traumatic snake memory behind it. When you find the snake memory in the smell of grass, learn about snakes; look at pictures of snakes and desensitise yourself a little; learn the habits of snakes, which ones are harmless, and get used to being with them, and so on.

You understand that when I say 'snake', for you it might be your mother, or school, or whatever.

No, not at all. It is in the head in the sense that it is a response to memory, but the memory is real. Snakes are real, fear of snakes is an instinctive reaction. Anxiety about snakes is a natural response to traumatic experience of snakes. There is good cause to fear snakes, they can kill.

The problem is that the memory is not just of snake, but of the smell of grass in the sunshine, warmth at one's back, the glittering of hot stones, the flapping of wings of a passing bird. And any of these becomes a trigger for anxiety too; not just that place, but anywhere remotely like it. This is why avoiding anxiety is debilitating; it's too global.

So if the smell of grass makes you anxious, stay with it and find the traumatic snake memory behind it. When you find the snake memory in the smell of grass, learn about snakes; look at pictures of snakes and desensitise yourself a little; learn the habits of snakes, which ones are harmless, and get used to being with them, and so on.

You understand that when I say 'snake', for you it might be your mother, or school, or whatever. — unenlightened

This sort of procedure worked for me with regards to health anxiety. As I learned much more about health, my anxiety effectively disappeared.

Anxiety has nothing to do with the brain. It is all in the gut - what is now called the enteric mind but had been known for thousands of years as the seat of the emotions in almost all cultures. This is the center of all ancient practices. Diet, massage, breathing exercises, spinal exercise, mediation, are all directed to this center if life. The brain is just a transmission station. That is all.

gut — Rich

So, can you experience anxiety without a brain?