• Qurious
    23
    The Drop

    A man falls off the summit of a very tall mountain.
    Frightened and afraid, the man is discomforted by fear but comforted by hope.
    The velocity of the man gradually ascends as he descends.

    From a distance one might observe that death was inevitable for the man.
    But, in the imminence of seeming death, the velocity of the man instantly decreases.
    What was once a bowling ball is now a floating leaf.

    -

    Let's say the man was a skydiver, who was waiting to open his parachute until just the right moment.
    Without the knowledge of these contributing factors, how could one determine that the man was not about to die?

    Perhaps you were to see this event when very young, with very little knowledge of things jumping off mountains or parachutes or anything of the like.
    Our expectations would surely be violated; mans invention would have allowed him to have defied what was and made it into what could be, by using creativity, thought and physical action.
    As a child with no prior experience or understanding of parachutes, if someone jumps off of a tall mountain, it would be relatively safe to assume that our immediate response would be fear, stimulus -> response.

    In order to understand the rules, you have to understand their context.

    Fear seems to be ruled out within the context of reasoned action (i.e. designing a parachute to work in the way it does & using it for it's intended purpose, thereby eradicating previous fears).
    One may argue this is hopeful, as when attempting a parachute jump, we risk our lives within the hands of our design, and if the parachute does not function as intended then it could ultimately result in death, nothing more.
    At the same time, with the will of human reason and creativity put into action, one can ensure that any faults in design can be removed.
    By having the knowledge about how a parachute should be designed one is able to check a parachute before using it, knowing if it is faulty.

    In order to understand context, you have to understand the rules.

    By facilitating the context of reasoned imagination, knowledge of a given thing or field is acquired through experience and mental study.
    Such experience and the reflections they yield can then be put into physical action and too our imaginative designs.
    But, it is important not to overlook the context of the human mind.
    Mindfulness is key - being conscious and attentive of ourselves and our experiences.

    Above all, I think we should try simply to BE morally good rather than trying to DO good things.
    We must not lose ourselves in trying to find something seemingly far away and unreachable.

    Goodness is essentially an internal concept. Attaching goodness to external securities simply leads us away from internal goodness.
    Happiness is essentially an internal state. Attaching happiness to external securities simply leads us away from internal happiness.

    Why is it that modern society is built upon the foundation of seeking happiness in external securities, is it just 'human nature'?
    Or perhaps the intelligent manipulation of human psychology, resulting in unquestionable conformity to the standard of consumerism?

    Is it because we don't know any better?
    Or perhaps because we know better exists but we can't come to comprehend it within the current sphere of human consciousness?

    These questions are purely speculative, but the fact that modern business is based upon the manipulation of humanity to seek desire cannot be ignored.
    This should be enough alone to bring the psychology of man into question, if not critical analysis and evaluation.

    Are we limited by our experiences or are our experiences limited by our perception and expectations of them?

    What do you think?
    That's what matters, after all...
  • Rich
    3.2k
    These questions are purely speculative, but the fact that modern business is based upon the manipulation of humanity to seek desire cannot be ignored.Qurious

    Creating desire profits is not just modern. It reaches back to n antiquities (hence Buddhism). We all have choices. Whether or not we are content with good conversations with friends or we must travel to some far off lands (and further pollute the environment in the process) are individual choices. Learning to be content with small is a skill that one learns in life. We are manipulated voluntarily.
  • Qurious
    23

    We all have choices. Whether or not we are content with good conversations with friends or we must travel to some far off lands (and further pollute the environment in the process) are individual choices.

    I agree with your premise, it is said that you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink.
    Our preferences are subjective, and our choices are unique.
    Therefore what brings one person happiness may differ for another, but while the means may be different the end will be the same.

    We are manipulated voluntarily.

    Participating and consciously participating are two entirely different things, like seeing and observing.
    We may voluntarily conform to a manipulated system, but the fact that we are also free not to conform to it isn't a fact that solves the problem, but one that illustrates it.
    Our freedom to think and act is wonderful, and we should be grateful we have such liberty.
    As a token of respect for our freedom, it makes sense that we should use it well.
    Why then do we as consumers continue to abuse our freedom in utilising the planet's resources?
    Is it because we're being manipulated, or because it really does serve the highest purpose in manifesting goodness - because it doesn't seem that way.
    Perhaps it's more emotionally comfortable to accept our fate rather than doing something about it, or because we're yet to come up with a better alternative that isn't founded on human greed and ignorance?

    Good questions seem to be of plentiful supply, but good answers are hard to come by.
  • Rich
    3.2k
    There are many reasons we choose to follow, most obviously "to be part of the group". Marketing simply lays the foundation for the group, it is for each one of us to choose whether to follow. For the most part, humans choose to and prefer to follow. Which one? Well that is the difference between great marketing and sales-so marketing.
  • Qurious
    23

    Choice is at the heart of our every decision, and yet choice is governed by more than merely our free will. There are determining variables which contribute to our choices despite us freely choosing otherwise. I'm not suggesting this is a bad thing to the greater extent, just that the human mind seems to be easily led down a path which might be completely devoid of any free reasoning, as you say "to be part of the group", conforming or otherwise.
    Despite an individual freely choosing differently, the need to fit-in demands willingness to follow blindly.
    What is ironic is at the heart of any "first-world problem" is an underlying unsatisfactoriness, in that it seems our deeper urges are not fulfilled even when our needs and even luxuries are supplied at a whim.
    So, can we ever reason freely if our choices are determined by other variables?
    That's where philosophy seems to be the way out - the search for truth.
    In a way akin to religion, but much more analytical and maybe a tad bit more foolproof...
  • AngleWyrm
    65
    I think we should try simply to BE morally good rather than trying to DO good things.Qurious

    "What's love but a second hand emotion?" ~ Tina Turner

    Do good, on purpose.
  • Qurious
    23


    I agree, but do good things as a result of being a good person, as opposed to aiming to do good things in spite of not being a good person.
    I guess it's the partial emphasis on character over action.
  • AngleWyrm
    65
    but do good things as a result of being a good person, as opposed to aiming to do good things in spite of not being a good person.Qurious

    How do you become a good person?
  • Qurious
    23


    By being aware of what is good.
  • AngleWyrm
    65
    How do you become a good person?AngleWyrm
    By being aware of what is good.Qurious

    If I kill you and take your money then that's good for me. Unless I get caught, then that's bad for me. Chances of being caught are pretty high in modern city life, so my best choice is to not kill you to take your money.

    Do you think I made a good decision?
  • Qurious
    23


    I don't think it could be classified as a morally good decision as it was based on a false pretence of goodness. The criterion by which you are defining goodness appears to be self-centred and simply to meet one's own base-ends, where the only thing making you a 'good' person is fear of punishment.
    Albeit a common human trait, that doesn't seem very moral to me. If you're defining 'what is good' by 'what is best suited to my own self-interests', then why have laws and codes of morality to begin with?
  • AngleWyrm
    65

    I don't know where "false pretense" came from, but I do claim my decision contained the purest and most essential form of good/bad that there is: Survival of good, death of bad.

    Morality is a table-of-contents look-up into an encyclopedia of historical incidents. If we look up "Opening an umbrella in the house is bad luck," we will find several entries where a child broke something with an umbrella. Don't be deceived by the word 'luck' on the end, it is an admonishment defining "bad" for the child.

    Law is where we as a group see that what is good for the one can also be harmful to the pack, such as my example murder. And so we put in place an accepted outcome of that behavior that is an improvement over the previous: Either I don't do it, or I likely go to prison / get executed. Both situations are additional improvements to the previous scenario from the point of view of the pack that agreed upon them.
  • Qurious
    23

    Okay, thanks for that.

    "If I kill you and take your money, then that is good for me" - how exactly are you defining good? In what way is harming another person and taking their material possessions good for you? Because it brings you temporary satisfaction? How might temporary satisfaction (by meeting external needs) compare to unconditional happiness (requiring only your will)?
    The way I look at it, this demonstrates a lack of awareness of what good is, because you have made goodness (& thus happiness) conditional upon actualising your own desires, rather than being good simply to be good.

    "If I get caught, that's bad for me"
    Why? Because you fear punishment? So your form of morality originates from fear rather than love?
    Virtues of man emphasise empathy, kindness and compassion.
    Thus, a virtuous man is empathetic, kind and compassionate.
    To follow, do you consider yourself a virtuous man?
    Or does your understanding of good only work if it fulfils your desires?

    If so, isn't your form of morality worth reconsidering?
  • AngleWyrm
    65
    "If I kill you and take your money, then that is good for me" - how exactly are you defining good?Qurious

    At the atomic level, I'm defining good as that which contributes to survival and therefore continues to exist, while bad is that which does the reverse. Yes, my response can be construed as pain/fear avoidance.

    My favorite interpretation of evolutionary forces is cull the least fit, and offer a spread on any metric where that takes place. I suspect that survival of the species, clan and village also gets sorted into the mix. Helping a non-hostile (friend) results in strength of the village (Seattle) and better security in numbers.
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