• ArguingWAristotleTiff
    3.5k
    If they start now with an educational program that teaches people the benefits of not having guns, start reviewing all of the people that already have them and begin a restrict control of who gets one in the future they might make a difference in a couple of generations.Sir2u

    Mandatory registration of currently owned firearms would have to be voluntary and then it gets into that hairy idea of confiscation of non registered firearms after a certain date and just tramples our rights.

    No, instead just have the government take control of any ammunition manufacturer. That way there is no need to take our guns when they have all the bullets.

    You have got to really dig deep to get to that line of thinking. Anyone have a shovel?
  • S
    10.2k
    It is as logical as all of us having to give up speaking to one another in public because of a few people who cannot help themselves but scream "Fire" in a movie theater or a crowded casino.ArguingWAristotleTiff

    It's like us all having to give up breathing because one person breathes by making annoying crow sounds, and then we all have to suffocate because of that one guy we'll call Keith. Yeah, thanks Keith. We're all dead because of you.Hanover

    Exactly. Guns for civilians are as essential as verbal communication in public and breathing. What would we do without them? I don't know how I'd cope without my precccciiiooousss.
  • Maw
    1.4k
    Yeah we can't enact gun control in order to reduce gun violence because of a perverse idea that gun rights take priority over human lives.
  • Baden
    7.9k
    The only ones of any relevance who can't breathe right now are the dead children. You don't need guns that bad.
  • Baden
    7.9k
    I've come to the conclusion it's more of a cultural thing though and isn't going to change in the foreseeable.
  • Hanover
    4.6k
    I've come to the conclusion it's more of a cultural thing though and isn't going to change in the foreseeable.Baden

    It's a Constitutional thing that'll never ever change.
  • Baden
    7.9k


    Yes exactly. Now you say "Cool" and we're done.
  • Sir2u
    1.7k
    They can't even successfully educate people in the basics of reading and arithmatic.Hanover

    That is why I said "in a couple of generations". They have a long way to go.

    But that problem is not just the American society, that is a world wide problem right now. Many of today's kids do not want to learn.
  • Hanover
    4.6k
    I just pointed out it is more than just cultural, but it is enshrined in our most sacred text, which means these arguments from policy won't likely change anything.

    Cool.
  • Baden
    7.9k


    I know, I was just joshing. I would hope you'd be able to at least get rid of AR-15 type guns at some point. I think that would help. But the arguments around here do tend to go in circles.
  • Sir2u
    1.7k
    I've come to the conclusion it's more of a cultural thing though and isn't going to change in the foreseeable.Baden

    And the only way to change culture (=behavior) is through education.

    Positive behavioral changes do not usually happen by themselves, they take conscious reasoning and control.
    Negative behavioral changes in behavior, unfortunately, do not. Negative behavioral changes are often the results of mindless follow the leader/example type of thing. "Dat's cool, I gonna do dat".
  • Baden
    7.9k


    I think you're right in general, but education in the US is a cultural battlefield in its self.
  • Sir2u
    1.7k
    I know all about the battles in education systems, I have talked to many people around the world and they all have the same problems. And I have my own battlefield to get through everyday at work.
  • Baden
    7.9k


    I can dig that.
  • Buxtebuddha
    1.8k
    The American obsession with guns is not behavioral. What's behavioral is the epidemic of bullying in middle and high schools. This Texas kid is yet another example of someone who was teased, belittled, and ostracized, not only by classmates, but by staff and teachers, as well. And if the one report I read is correct, then the shooter picked who to shoot, sparing those students who were likely kind and didn't bully him.

    Being a millennial myself, and having experienced all sorts of different schools in several states, I don't see a gun issue when shootings like the Texas one happen, I see the effects of bullying and the utterly toxic and psychologically warped environment that is now the prevailing habitat in schools across America. It's pernicious, and I've seen first hand how most students aren't willing to be better or to check their own behavior and how it affects others. The world's just a fucking joke and a meme to kids of my generation, and the consequences of their actions have no bearing on their behavior. It's sickening to me, and I get tired of seeing people blame guns and Nazis and whatever else when there are some seriously fucked up shit going on schools and other places that contribute hugely to people doing even more terrible things.

    Oh, but I'm sure people will scream on and on about how we need better mental healthcare too and yada yada. Yeah, I think we should. For everyone, including the little shitfaces who won't ever shoot up a school but do contribute to someone who might. Too bad that'll never happen, because nobody wants to address mental health because it's the silent plague of modern society. "Ban guns" may sound easy, and there are many measures we can and ought to take, but whether it helps those individuals who do want to kill people as an act of revenge...I don't think so. And until we start treating the issue by the ends and not the means, the situation - whether reported on or not - will continue to fall into itself.
  • S
    10.2k
    The American obsession with guns is not behavioral.Buxtebuddha

    So it's genetic, like Downs syndrome?
  • Wallows
    8.2k


    "Doth the Lord desire holocausts and victims?"
  • Baden
    7.9k


    It's a combination though isn't it? The last thing you need in a toxic bullying environment is easy availability of guns.
  • Buxtebuddha
    1.8k
    So it's genetic, like Downs syndrome?Sapientia

    I guess, if you think the opposite of behavior is genes - which I don't.

    "Doth the Lord desire holocausts and victims?"Posty McPostface

    Saint Liguori, what a lad.

    It's a combination though isn't it? The last thing you need in a toxic bullying environment is easy availability of guns.Baden

    Yes, but the issue is hardly categorized as a compromise or combination, either in media or by those who are most vocal about gun legislation. One reason why is because the seeds of gun violence and mass shootings in America doesn't just stem to guns, but lots of other touchy subjects nobody wants to deal with.
  • Sir2u
    1.7k
    The American obsession with guns is not behavioral.Buxtebuddha

    So obsessive behavior is not behavior, that's news.
  • S
    10.2k
    It's misbehaviour. If you catch kids running around with scissors, then the first thing that you should do is stop them and take away the scissors. Whose bright idea was it to leave them unsupervised with easy access to scissors?
  • Sir2u
    1.7k
    If you catch kids running around with scissors, then the first thing that you should do is stop them and take away the scissors. Whose bright idea was it to leave them unsupervised with easy access to scissors?Sapientia

    You would take away the scissors and explain why they should not do that. Education.

    Taking away the scissors without an explanation is the same as oppression and leads to resentment and frustration, which in turn might lead to violence.
  • tim wood
    2.5k
    The current understanding of the 2d amendment is a "fraud." Want to argue it? Take it up there:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eya_k4P-iEo

    And it is a murderous fraud.
  • S
    10.2k
    You would take away the scissors and explain why they should not do that. Education.

    Taking away the scissors without an explanation is the same as oppression and leads to resentment and frustration, which in turn might lead to violence.
    Sir2u

    No, I would take away the scissors and replace them with guns. Upgrade. :up:

    Of course it should be followed by an explanation! I was only talking about the first thing that you should do. (For those who need a little help: it's about priorities, and relates to the talk about a combination of issues, and why one aspect seems to get more attention).
  • Sir2u
    1.7k
    No, I would take away the scissors and replace them with guns.

    Of course it should be followed by an explanation! I was only talking about the first thing that you should do.
    Sapientia

    Sorry, but if you would explain instead of getting snarky it might help.
  • S
    10.2k
    Sorry, but if you would explain instead of getting snarky it might help.Sir2u

    Sorry, but a snarky partial explanation is the best I can offer you. Have a nice day. :smile:
  • Banno
    5.3k
    It astonishes me that there is any debate here. The issue is clear cut; children before guns.

    The extent that yanks will go to in order to justify their quite irrational obsession leaves me nonplussed.
  • Sir2u
    1.7k
    Ain't that the truth!

    But then the yanks can be weird sometimes, present company are not counted in that generality. :wink:
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