• Pattern-chaser
    1.8k
    An omnipotent being could just create a world were all beings can exist in harmony.Echarmion

    And if this unlikely scenario actually took place, would these beings exist in harmony, or might they behave in a less than harmonious manner, at least once in a while? Let's remember: God is responsible, not these beings.... :chin: This being the case, is your comment (above) still valid? The OP asks this:

    If God exists and He is all good and all powerful why does He allow evil?MysticMonist

    And the answer, in the context of the comments I am posting, is that She doesn't allow it; it is necessary if good is also to exist.
  • Echarmion
    651
    And the answer, in the context of the comments I am posting, is that She doesn't allow it; it is necessary if good is also to exist.Pattern-chaser

    But that raises another issue: If evil is necessary for good to exist, and God created evil, then she cannot have been good. So, the God that created the universe was not, after all, good.
  • Pattern-chaser
    1.8k
    I can't be bothered delving through so much detail, but I offer this: if God is all/everything in so many ways (omni-this, omni-that), maybe God is both good and evil, and much more besides? Equally, and for much the same reasons, maybe God is neither good nor evil?

    For if God is good, is She good to herself, good to you, good to humans, good to philosophers, good to the world, good to the universe, good to fascists, and so on ad infinitum? For many of these goodnesses are mutually exclusive, rendering the whole question rather pointless. :chin:

    However I look at this, I seem to end up with the conclusion that there is no Problem of Evil. It's just a big misunderstanding (of good, God, and so on).
  • Stephen Cook
    8
    Good and Evil are not dependant on free will; nothing is, by definition.
    Good is that which pleases man; evil is that which pleases him not. Good and evil are simply dependent of the discrimination of humans identifying them.
    Sculptor

    All you have done there is move the goalposts.

    But, it's the same goal

    Moral discrimination of the kind you are referring to requires choice to be made independent of causes. That is to say, they are required to not be the consequence of predetermined responses. Which, in turn, requires free will. Free will requires non causality.

    Causality, in a universe that runs on either classical or quantum lines, is inescapable. Free will is therefore impossible in such a universe since, for that will to be free, it would need to occur independently of causes. In other words, it is impossible in all circumstances of reality as we know it.

    If a billiard ball rolls down a hill, do we ascribe "free will" to that billiard ball to decide to roll down the hill?

    We are made of billiard balls. The fact that they are incredibly tiny and we are made of a very large amount of them and they interact with each other in unfathomably complex ways does not change the fact of what they are or change the implications for us in terms of the possibility of ascribing free will to us any more than we can ascribe it to that billiard ball rolling down that hill.

    So, in short, I am not suggesting one cannot believe in free will. But, in order to do so, one must reject the laws of physics as currently understood.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    685
    And the answer, in the context of the comments I am posting, is that She doesn't allow it; it is necessary if good is also to exist.Pattern-chaser

    You give Satan her role, just as god did.
    You cheer Satan on just as Christians do when they sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

    Go Satan go. Pull up your skirts and go baby. Women truly are the root of all evil, in a good kind of way.

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    685
    So, the God that created the universe was not, after all, good.Echarmion

    Christians see Yahweh as good while Gnostic Christians see all gods who can cure as easily as kill, --- like Yahweh can, --- yet chooses to kill, --- as Yahweh does, --- as a genocidal son murdering prick of a god and evil as hell.

    Who do you think has it right?

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    685
    However I look at this, I seem to end up with the conclusion that there is no Problem of Evil. It's just a big misunderstanding (of good, God, and so on).Pattern-chaser

    There is a problem with evil, but I see Yin and Yang as compliments and not in opposition to each other.
    Evil is just a small part of a greater good as it melds with it complimentary opposite.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3LJ5HNfNEY

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    685
    So, in short, I am not suggesting one cannot believe in free will. But, in order to do so, one must reject the laws of physics as currently understood.Stephen Cook

    ??

    Our freedom to do our will is governed and cannot surpass the laws of physics and nature, but anything within that limit shows how we do have a degree of free will.

    If we did not have it, we could not give it up. We can give it up by choice.

    That is the conclusion of a little test that has a poster give up his free will to reply within a simple set of limit. It demonstrates how we all can give up our free will.

    Regards
    DL
  • Pattern-chaser
    1.8k
    You give Satan her role, just as god did.Gnostic Christian Bishop

    No, please don't overlay your religious beliefs onto mine. I worship God by the name Gaia. She is not a creator-God, and I do not acknowledge the Christian concept of the Devil.

    I simply observe that yin has no meaning if yang doesn't exist. The same with good and evil.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    685
    You give evil a role, even if you dislike the religious tone so saying that you do not is not you on your brightest day.

    Regards
    DL
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