A Buddhist told me that all divisions are both illusory and real.

Tribalism — Tom Storm

One of Heidegger's biographers accused him of sadism due to his easy attitude toward violence and even genocide. If someone is happy with the concept of humans being tortured eternally, maybe there's some sadism to it?

One of Heidegger's biographers accused him of sadism due to his easy attitude toward violence and even genocide. — frank

Is that accurate? Is that Black Notebokk stuff?

If someone is happy with the concept of humans being tortured eternally, maybe there's some sadism to it? — frank

Well if God is happy with this who are we not to share the enthusiasm?

Is that accurate? Is that Black Notebokk stuff? — Tom Storm

No, that's Steiner in 1979. The black notebooks just put an end to any possibility of apology.

Well if God is happy with this who are we not to share the enthusiasm? — Tom Storm

Well, it's just that most of us would be filled with horror at the thought of lighting a golden retriever on fire. We're better than God?

No, that's Steiner in 1979. The black notebooks just put an end to any possibility of apology. — frank

Ah huh! Good line by the way.

Well, it's just that most of us would be filled with horror at the thought of lighting a golden retriever on fire. — frank

These days it seems that some people are more uncomfortable with golden retrievers on fire than people.

These days it seems that some people are more uncomfortable with golden retrievers on fire than people. — Tom Storm

misanthropy, yep

Conservative Christians care about divisions. — frank

That's because conservatives adhere to orthodoxy by definition and don't accept variation, which does require them to either ignore or explain away their own modifications that occur over time.

Orthodox Judaism modifies by becoming more strict, so not all change is towards leniency.

The Amish control themselves by adhering to the rule that increasing one's humility is showing off and therefore not humble. Like if I tried to prove myself a super Amish man by having a goat pull me on a rolling chair instead of a fancy horse and buggy.

That's the best example I could think of, but there might be others.

But for the perfect Amish woman, would you go all out with goat and what not? This is a test for how conservative you are.

Below is a video I made (less than 10 minutes) about why religions have failed to find the truth.
In short, religions disagree about what happens when I die, how to be saved, etc. Religions have had thousands of years to find the truth and have failed. The video show why. Comments (here or on YouTube) appreciated. — Art48

We need to think about what religions try to achieve. If we agree that religions aim to achieve converting the ordinary folks in the streets into their cults and sectors giving false promise and illusion for afterlife and reincarnation, then they have been successful, because there are many believers in the teachings.

If the would-be followers turn to sceptic on the religions doubting if the teachings are true, the religions still succeed, because then the sceptic will turn to a philosopher reading philosophy of religion not quite committing himself to the teachings, but still thinking about and going over the teachings.

And sooner or later, the non-belivers and agnostics tend to turn to religions when they get older.

Whether religions actually offer the real afterlife or reincarnation remains mystery, which belong to the realm of faith.

We need to think about what religions try to achieve. If we agree that religions aim to achieve converting the ordinary folks in the streets into their cults and sectors giving false promise and illusion for afterlife and reincarnation, then they have been successful, because there are many believers in the teachings. — Corvus

I don't think religion tries to achieve that; that’s a specific description a sceptic might provide. Firstly, there are religions that do not work around conversion. But in essence, most religion works to build community around a shared notion of the transcendent.

And sooner or later, the non-belivers and agnostics tend to turn to religions when they get older. — Corvus

It goes in reverse too. I worked in palliative care and watched people die, many of whom were religious, including priests, nuns, ministers, and monks. Many of them confessed that they no longer believed in God, not because they were dying, but because, as they were dying, they reviewed their beliefs and felt God lacking real traction.

But in essence, most religion works to build community around a shared notion of the transcendent. — Tom Storm

Building community sounds like recruiting the disciples and converting folks. but in different wordings.

they reviewed their beliefs and felt God lacking real traction. — Tom Storm

I read the opposite stories - Please have a read on the life of A. J. Ayer his final days.

I read the opposite stories - Please have a read on the life of A. J. Ayer his final days. — Corvus

I have done more than read, I've seen it. And as I said, there are some who behave as you say but it often goes in reverse.

Building community sounds like recruiting the disciples and converting folks. but in different wordings. — Corvus

No, it isn’t different wording; it’s a fundamentally different lens. Your example is a common secular view of religion that uses pejorative language to describe aims. See below.

If we agree that religions aim to achieve converting the ordinary folks in the streets into their cults and sectors giving false promise and illusion for afterlife — Corvus

I'd say religions aims for truth not false promises or illusions. What you are describing is not the aim of religion but a skeptic's view of religions aims.

No, it isn’t different wording; it’s a fundamentally different lens. Your example is a common secular view of religion that uses pejorative language to describe aims. See below. — Tom Storm

My points were from my experience of observing the church members when attending the churches in my teens.

I'd say religions aims for truth not false promises or illusions. What you are describing is not the aim of religion but a skeptic's view of religions aims. — Tom Storm

There are many different types and sectors in religions. They may operate and behave all differently. Not saying your points are wrong.

My points were from my experience of observing the church members when attending the churches in my teens. — Corvus

So are you saying this is your interpretation of what you saw? Or are you saying that your church members and church leaders also aimed to provide false promises or illusions?

I would agree with you that many of religion’s claims are dubious but its members tend to be sincere. Isn’t this the tragedy? That’s certainly what I found growing up in the Baptist tradition.

So are you saying this is your interpretation of what you saw? Or are you saying that your church members and church leaders also aimed to provide false promises or illusions? — Tom Storm

It was obvious from the observations, many members were there for increasing their business, making more contacts preferably richer older folks, and they were told to bring more friends or whoever into the church, and they will have more blessing from God. Some were attending the church because they were lonely, and wanted to find partner. Of course, it wouldn't be all 100% of them were like that, but quite a lot of them were like that.

Got ya. :up::up: