And by the way, my post linked to a site quoting American Heritage Dictionary supporting two (actually more than two) meanings for "death". What's your evidence to the contrary? You need more than bluster.

Chopin Nocturne Op 9 #2, while reciting, reading and or listening to Nietzsche's Night-Song, from Thus Spake Zarathustra, Thomas Commons translation for those who don't know it in German. The super abundance experienced in the Dionysian Oneness that occurs is easily a case against suicide. — DifferentiatingEgg

Different strokes for different folks. To me, that sounds more like an encouragement for suicide, not an escape.

Of course, it’s just personal taste. I’m not sure music or books have ever offered me much consolation. I’ve sometimes thought it might be nice to overdose to Strauss’ Four Last Songs (Jessye Norman) and some good whisky. I rarely read and listen at the same time.

nah, metaphysical truth. And, I feel you on not reading and listening to something at the same time, but it's not bad when the words and pace literary go in synch with the song which is 4:30 and the pace of reciting/reading at recitation pace takes like 4-4:20 unless you hasten your speech. But, I was mostly joking anyways. Though, I do find it to be quite an awesome mash up of audio.

:up:

Ah yes, poetics. — AmadeusD

Interesting, that you find my points are poetics. Poetics are supposed to be beautiful written expressions of thoughts on the nature or mind. What part of my thoughts and writing were poetics?

This is not philosophy mate. All good. — AmadeusD

Really? What is your definition of philosophy?

In the film Nomadland (2020) there is a speech that sums up the essence of self-help therapy talk, it is the final scene with Bob Wells (The clip/or full movie can be easily pulled from YouTube) where he looks a lot like Karl Marx and Santa Claus combined, and for me the most poignant point of the film that hits home melancholically, but ultimately very human, be it myth making or not… not sure how much Bob is acting or playing himself here either way the dramatic dialogue distils in a few minutes the lingering ghosts of mourning, a hauntology.

https://youtu.be/rnwNR6q5kNQ

When I first read your reply I thought you were in a better state than before, and I was happy for you. Then it occurred to me that the missing word after "don't" would most likely be "see".

I take it you are no longer interested in answers to the OP, "to find a good argument against suicide". Some people continuing the discussion here, after its nine months lapse, are no longer trying to answer that; they are more intent on finding conditions in which they think suicide is justified.

It sounds like what you need now, more than philosophical wisdom, is prudent practical advice. May God lead you to good counsel to lift you out of your present situatio — Gregory of the Beard of Ockham

Yeah slight typo but no I don't actually want to end it, it just seemed like the quickest way to deal with my problems at the time. But deep down I know I have no real desire to end my life barring some intense circumstance.

:up:

Yeah slight typo but no I don't actually want to end it, it just seemed like the quickest way to deal with my problems at the time. But deep down I know I have no real desire to end my life barring some intense circumstance. — Darkneos

Fantastic to hear. I admit to some concern when this thread continued and you hadn't posted for a while. Glad you're in a better head space.

To sum up my points, it is illogical to recommend suicide or commit suicide, when killing oneself is not the answer to the problems whatever problem it might be.

If someone is suffering from pain, then the cure will be medical help in order to ease the pain. Killing oneself because of the pain would be like, demolishing a whole house, when it has a roof leak, or broken window. It sounds irrational act as well as immoral doing so, or recommending so.

Death is not momentary event. When someone dies, the ripple of the death lasts and could affect many other close people of the dead for long time. And the world of death is totally unknown to mankind. Buddhists believe when one dies, they incarnates into other beings based on the karma.

It is not a case of simple momentary event which happens in a second, and everything will be the end. That would be an idea of the ordinary folks who have no idea on the bigger picture of the transformation of the living existence on the Earth into the unknown world.

To sum up my points, it is illogical to recommend suicide or commit suicide, when killing oneself is not the answer to the problems whatever problem it might be.

Okay, but what about the situation when killing oneself is the answer to the problem?

The rest of your posting treats death as an option that those who don't perform suicide can avoid. Alas, everyone must address death, suicide merely alters the timing of it somewhat. I do agree with you that suicide is commonly a mistake, but there are cases when it is a reasonable course to take.

Okay, but what about the situation when killing oneself is the answer to the problem? — LuckyR

I couldn't think of any of such situation. What could it be, for example?

I always used to think killing oneself is committed when one is in deranged mental state or under illusions of some sort.

When some one is condoning and even actively promoting assisted killings, in most cases they seem to be motivated by their own financial gains by killing the sufferer under the disguise of act of mercy, which is immoral.

I always used to think killing oneself is committed when one is in deranged mental state or under illusions of some sort.

When some one is condoning and even actively promoting assisted killings, in most cases they seem to be motivated by their own financial gains by killing the sufferer under the disguise of act of mercy, which is immoral

Used to think? Well now that you're smarter and more experienced, what do you think now?

As to your last paragraph, I'm curious what the source of information you're using to derive your conclusion as to why folks "seem to be motivated" as you describe.

Lastly, for someone whose family and close friends have passed and are suffering from intractable pain that their doctors have no answer for and are due to die of this malady in say 1 year, would extending that to two years be preferable? How about shortening it to 6 months? Could logical arguments be made in both cases?

World-first as Australian donates organs after self-administering assisted dying medication

Out of interest.

Used to think? Well now that you're smarter and more experienced, what do you think now? — LuckyR

My view has not changed.

As to your last paragraph, I'm curious what the source of information you're using to derive your conclusion as to why folks "seem to be motivated" as you describe. — LuckyR

It comes from my own experience having witnessed my father's death. He was suffering from illness in the hospital. He didn't last too long, and passed away. I still feel if he is still alive, and is here on the earth, it would be better than the death. Because it would be possible to have some conversation with him. Death makes impossible to even have a chat with the dead. The death never ends. It continues eternally.

Also I have noticed the doctors in the hospital and my step mother, wanted, and recommended ending the care for my dying father, so she could grab the inheritance, and get on with her own life, and the doctors wanted get the fees paid as soon as possible, and move on the to next suffering patients. They didn't have any sympathy for the dying person, and had no care for life.

I commend you for your honesty, though I'm not putting much stock in a generalization based on an anecdote with an N of 1.

I'll take your silence on my last question as acknowledgement that an argument can be made for shortening one's time of suffering in certain limited circumstances.

The flip side of the question is 'what makes life worth living'. My problem I have had throughout my life is that society in general I find so vapid and disgusting. For most people in western society consumerism and binge drinking are the highest ideals.

If there was something worth fighting for that gives one reason to live but why does one want to fight for the above soulless nonsense? It seems that is satisfactory for the majority of society and I have never been able to get it or see how that can bring them satisfaction.

I'll take your silence on my last question as acknowledgement that an argument can be made for shortening one's time of suffering in certain limited circumstances. — LuckyR

I thought the answer to that question was implied in my posts.

'what makes life worth living'. — unimportant

This is a hard question to answer. Suppose everyone has different answers depending on what their thoughts are on their own life.

That's the issue with non face to face communication, better if unspoken insinuations are spelled out.