Facts, the ideal illusion. What do the people on this forum think?
  • Plex
    1
    Hello everyone, first post/discussion on this forum!

    I want to share and discuss my philosophy about the nature of conclusions and thought. What it means for something to be unknown and how not the knowing, but the unknowing is where the fruits of life can be found.

    Although I will show my manner of thought I am always open to any view and perspective and would love to hear others opinions.

    I do not believe in facts nor do I believe in good or bad. I do not believe that we truly know anything. Facts are only an ideal perfection, something we would like to achieve but cannot. People tend to search for answers, people tend to find fulfillment in knowing. But the only true meaning in knowing is a reason to stop thinking. It gives us a reason to process the things that happen in our day-to-day lives, a way to move on. Nothing is certain, you can never define all factors, all details, everything in and out about a given question. We make ourselves believe that we know, that that is where meaning can be found in life. But the only value "knowing" may bring is a reason to stop thinking, a reason to stop learning more. Is the value not found in the question rather than the answer?

    Why not learn more about a certain subject by asking more questions? To try and grasp a slice of the infinite truths of life? I do not believe in answers, I do not believe in good or bad. I believe in infinite questions, not infinite answers. But I also do not believe what I am writing now is correct, or false. Thought itself is abstract, just as language. A row of letters on a screen, pixels, everything that is and is not. Maybe everything is something else, maybe it is not. I simply do not know, I only can think about what may be, not what is.

    Thoughts:
    Am I wrong (if you believe in the existence of wrong)?
    Do you believe in the existence of facts, or that about everything we know there can be asked more questions than there can be answers?
    Are you able to name a fact and if yes how do you know completely certain there is one?
    1. Can you know something 100% certain or is there always some uncertainty? (2 votes)
        Pure facts exist
        50%
        Facts do not exist
        50%
        Facts are something that can be theoretically atchieved but not practically
          0%
    Plex Options
  • Patterner
    891
    There is no worry or possibility that we will ever stop thinking. If there are answers, and we find answers to any number of questions, there will always be more questions to ask, and more to think about.

    Welcome to TPF!
    Patterner Options
  • creativesoul
    11.9k
    Nothing is certain, — Plex

    Including this?
    creativesoul Options
  • creativesoul
    11.9k
    I do not believe in facts nor do I believe in good or bad. I do not believe that we truly know anything. — Plex

    So... then are you saying that it's not bad to smack an old lady in the head with a shovel, or to kick puppies, or to knowingly and deliberately cause unnecessary harm?

    Do you know that you do not believe in good and bad?
    creativesoul Options
  • tim wood
    9.2k
    A point not often made: all facts are historical facts. That is, a fact is a proposition that presumably with sufficient accuracy describes some state of affairs. That means that any discussion of facts, where "fact" is not well-defined - and in most contexts it is - cannot easily arrive anywhere until that work is done, and the intended meaning made clear.
    tim wood Options
  • Nils Loc
    1.4k
    Facts are only an ideal perfection, something we would like to achieve but cannot. — Plex

    Many facts aren't ideal perfections written in stone, they're relative, provisional, ephemeral, context dependent, general or specific bits of information that help us navigate the world and achieve goals (whether "foolish" or "wise").
    Nils Loc Options
  • T Clark
    13.6k
    I do not believe in facts nor do I believe in good or bad. I do not believe that we truly know anything. Facts are only an ideal perfection, something we would like to achieve but cannot. — Plex

    Here’s what Steven J Gould had to say about facts:

    In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." — Stephen J Gould

    That is a good description of what facts and knowledge are to me. They are information which is adequate to make decisions about potential actions. Of course the information might be wrong, but there comes a time when you have to act even though there are uncertainties.

    You say you don’t believe in facts, but every day you act as if you do - you make decisions and act based on the information you have.
    T Clark Options
  • jkop
    838
    Are you able to name a fact and if yes how do you know completely certain there is one? — Plex

    It's s fact that these marks on this page are words. I know it for certain since I wrote some of them, they're published and open to read.
    jkop Options
  • Wayfarer
    22k
    I also do not believe what I am writing now is correct, or false. Thought itself is abstract, just as language. A row of letters on a screen, pixels, everything that is and is not. — Plex

    Also known as 'nonsense'.
    Wayfarer Options
  • Igitur
    74
    ↪Plex
    In my opinion, the whole idea of a fact or a truth only makes sense in a human concept. There are no untrue things in the universe besides things we have created. The whole concept of a statement and its properties is a product of our language and thinking processes.

    There are no true facts in this concept because out of a human concept, things just are, they aren’t true or false. Interesting concept, I can explain further.

    There isn’t really another practical definition of a pure fact, and it’s hard to formulate one even if there could be one. For example, if you take a pure fact to be something that’s true in every context, and take any statement, that statement will have sections that are defined a specific way but could be defined differently by different people and therefore not true in their context.

    Despite all this, there are still truths that are absolute, if not pure. We can thank our brains for creating specific contexts and allowing us to use highly useful human fabrications such as language, logic, and truths.

    One of the most appealing parts about this philosophy to me is that it works in the context of this question. This is only really an applicable answer in some interpretations of the question, using some definitions.

    And finally, my commitment to practical philosophy requires me to mention that this is practically a good thing, as it allows us to interpret the universe in our context, and determine what we trust and what we don’t.
    Igitur Options
  • T Clark
    13.6k
    Hey, @Plex, it’s expected you will participate in discussions you start.
    T Clark Options
  • Philosophim
    2.6k
    Welcome to the forum! I hope you aren't too intimidated by the replies here. People just get to the point, and its not personal. :)

    I do not believe in facts nor do I believe in good or bad. I do not believe that we truly know anything. — Plex

    Do you know that for sure? Why should anyone agree with you when your own conclusion concludes you're not certain?

    Is the value not found in the question rather than the answer? — Plex

    No. If I need to know how much I can spend this month and not run out of money, I need the answer.

    Why not learn more about a certain subject by asking more questions? — Plex

    If there are no facts, then what we're learning by asking more questions are not facts either. So what are we doing?

    I do not believe in answers, I do not believe in good or bad — Plex

    Think about it for a second. You believe in nothing, can assert nothing, nor convince anyone of of anything. This strategy of, "We can't know anything' is what people do when they find it difficult to understand how we do know, and abandon all hope and pretend that providing no answer is somehow intelligent. Its not. Its the abandonment of intelligence. Its a trap of the mind to avoid thinking further.
    Its giving up.

    Am I wrong (if you believe in the existence of wrong)? — Plex

    Yes. You can't say you're right. To do so, would be to assert a fact. I assert facts. You cannot assert I'm wrong, because me being wrong would be a fact. You can't even assert your own argument is real. I win by default.

    Are you able to name a fact and if yes how do you know completely certain there is one? — Plex

    Yes, the fact that you can read and write. If you could not, you could not read or reply to this answer, nor could you have written your OP. If you want to really think about what knowledge is, read here:
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/14044/knowledge-and-induction-within-your-self-context/p1

    There is a summary right after the OP that captures the points.
    Philosophim Options
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