Subjectively — Vera Mont

So, to you, art is simply in the eyes of the consumer?

I don't mean to imply that intent is the only element that matters in art.

Okay. Which processes are art and which are industry or mundane life? — Vera Mont

It seems clear to me that intent is a necessary condition. Do people 'accidentally' create art? Per your subjective stance, perhaps you think yes? If enough people subjectively agree?

It feels like skill / authenticity / voice / intent are all likely candidates for 'artistry', and that all of these criteria are 'subjective', but when society after society settles on similar criteria for 'art' that we might be getting closer to the issue.

So, basically everybody who tells a story, whether you know what stories they told or not — Vera Mont

That's an uncharitable take. I am going by probabilities. Grandpa is definitely least likely, unless you think art is simply a product of chance.

You think grandpa is going to land on art when he is likely not to even think that what he is doing could be art? Please point to examples of this tradition of grandpa storytelling as artform?

Actually, I can't really tell what your stance is? That it is pointless to discuss art?

You have little alternative to using your own judgment, unless you simply go along with what the majority likes or what critics like. — Vera Mont

Personally, I use my own judgement, and am influenced by people I consider worth listening to, be they critics or the masses. You?

So, to you, art is simply in the eyes of the consumer? — Jeremy Murray

Not simply; it's quite a complicated process. Some new thing gets into the culture if many people admire it. Christo wrapping bridges in silk, to me is just ridiculous; to many others, it's madly original and worthy of applause. In this instance, I was in the minority, along with many art critics, but the public ate up his exploits. One possible of its quality is whether it's still admire 20, 50, 100 years after. Rembrandt still is, while most of his contemporary painters are forgotten. A work that survives its maker, may be assumed to have some deeper message than "Love me!" "Die!" or "Lookie here!"

It seems clear to me that intent is a necessary condition. — Jeremy Murray

Okay. Cooking dinner is done intentionally; so it tearing down a condemned building, crossing the street, holding up a bank, going to the dairy Queen for ice cream. Hardly a sufficient condition for art.

Do people 'accidentally' create art? — Jeremy Murray

Maybe. I know that some artists incorporate chance and randomness in their work, and some people admire their work.

If enough people subjectively agree? — Jeremy Murray

Then it become part of popular culture, and may even survive.

It feels like skill / authenticity / voice / intent are all likely candidates for 'artistry' — Jeremy Murray

I'm inclined to agree that they're prerequisites. Whether the criteria have been adequately met in any given artistic endeavour is what each beholder decides according to their standards, discernment and taste.

That's an uncharitable take. I am going by probabilities. Grandpa is definitely least likely, unless you think art is simply a product of chance. — Jeremy Murray

Based on what data? Why do you think there is causal link between reproduction, age and art? You seem to be judging unknown people blindly.
A grandfather has the sameintent as Hemingway: to tell a story and convey a message; no chance involved. You don't think an old man cannot have talent and originality and craft? Why? Shakespeare and Chaucer had grandchildren, and they did okay.

Actually, I can't really tell what your stance is? That it is pointless to discuss art? — Jeremy Murray

No. That the function of art is to add value to, to enhance, enlighten and enrich culture. Violence doesn't.

Personally, I use my own judgement, and am influenced by people I consider worth listening to, be they critics or the masses. You? — Jeremy Murray

Own judgment, formed over time and through learning. I have no reverence for critics, since they so often seem to follow fads.