• Outlander
    2.1k
    Kind of a multi-faceted question here which would perhaps even be best discerned by the individual reader as to what they be.

    Now clearly there is a difference of scenario between a man on the street with barely enough food or water for the day who hinges solely on the kindness of strangers passing by for him not to perish and a man with multiple high-end properties who dines on exotic dishes anytime he pleases. They call this in no modest slang terms "having 'f**k you' money". Presumably because instead of flicking someone off or insulting them you could simply pay them to go away or do something foolish perhaps embarrassing without it affecting you in any way.

    But for purposes of this question let's discern an "average" person. Has a roof over their head that is more or less likely to be there for a reasonable period of time, be it apartment or residence, fully paid off or not, They have enough food and water to eat and live properly and have a more or less balanced work/life schedule, even if not as they would please it to be. They also have reliable transportation as well as more or less the same basic goods and subscription to services as their neighbors do and on occasion start budgeting to save up for something nice and unique to their social circle of friends and neighbors. They've been on vacations before, if not by careful budgeting and sacrifice, and could reasonably go on another in not too long a period of time. Basically, they have everything they need, many things they want, yet only due to the fact they budget and spend responsibility, meaning if they did not do these things, they might soon find themselves in a moderate degree of financial trouble. I suppose one might call this "middle class" and explicitly "not wealthy".

    Now compare this to someone who lives under a bridge, whose circumstances are quite precarious, yet always is able to get just enough to eat or drink, be it by government stipend, food banks, or generosity of those more fortunate. Essentially, the certainty and relative security distinctly absent compared to the situation of the former or "average" individual. What of this man?

    I find it reasonable to believe, with the right mindset, a man who perhaps made the conscious and willful choice to not have a family by his, and only his, own volition and not due to financial circumstance, conscious or unconscious, can live a happy, healthy life in a relatively small apartment from birth to dotage, provided the complications and difficulties that come with old age are not a factor (are mitigated).

    Is this not reasonable? Is it perhaps the envy one naturally feels (especially toward one of unscrupulous character, perhaps even of personal ire) when another seems to have so much more physical assets and resources, which presumably equates a better and therefore happier life?

    Sure, absent of devout religious or otherwise metaphysical views of an afterlife, it is doubtful one can actively be starving to death on the side of a road and perhaps by ignoring or minimizing the physical pains and sufferings as "transient" or "insignificant", truly feel the sense of "happiness" or at least "contentedness" the rich man feels in his castle of a abode amongst the opulence of his private wine cellar and security of his personal waitstaff. Or can he? Why or why not?

    What do you think? Come on TPF, let's press the issue.

    Note: This is not a question pertinent to money or the idea of money or currency itself, rather an idea of resources or belongings or perhaps even "power" or influence. Relevant discussion points in this topic should be universal in any scenario whether traditional money or currency does or does not exist in it.
  • Tom Storm
    9.1k
    I've generally held the view that very often people don't really want what they want. By this I mean it is hard for many people to truly identify they want from life and the circumstances they actually desire, because they are caught up in games of status and competition and socialised into accepting values they don't really benefit from holding and wouldn't hold if given an 'opt out' opportunity.

    When one makes money there are expectations and lifestyle clichés about about how money should be spent. I'm fairly sure many people don't enjoy the things they buy much. It's ritual.

    I have known several very wealthy people (multi-millionaire types) and many poor people. It's not always easy to see a clear difference in levels of happiness. People's mental health and capacity to connect, enjoy life and find purpose seems to be the primary issue and these don't have much to do with resources. Consider Matthew Perry.

    I was talking to a rich guy with around 50 prestige and collectible cars a few years ago. I asked him how often he drove them. He told me he didn't much and that staff were employed to run them and maintain the fleet in a purpose-built storage warehouse. It seemed pretty clear these cars were fairly pointless and just more shit to worry about.

    The obvious point to make is that access to education, health and housing (basic security and safety) are important building blocks. If one has a family, these become more urgent. Outside of this, I believe one can be very happy living in a room or two, with few possessions and not much money. Possibly the happiest I've been is living in a room in a share house with around 100 possessions and no debt or obligations. The Epicurean position on wealth and material possessions resonates with me. I tend to avoid owning things where I can and I consider myself an underperforming minimalist.

    Now compare this to someone who lives under a bridge, whose circumstances are quite precarious, yet always is able to get just enough to eat or drink, be it by government stipend, food banks, or generosity of those more fortunate. Essentially, the certainty and relative security distinctly absent compared to the situation of the former or "average" individual. What of this man?Outlander

    I've known dozens of men and women in this situation. Mostly they have histories of trauma and mental ill health, so I am not sure where this can be taken.
  • Leontiskos
    3.2k
    Some quotes from Aristotle:

    But the happiness which consists in the exercise of the reason is separate from the lower nature. (So much we may be allowed to assert about it: a detailed discussion is beyond our present purpose.)

    Further, this happiness would seem to need but a small supply of external goods, certainly less than the moral life needs. Both need the necessaries of life to the same extent, let us say; for though, in fact, the politician takes more care of his person than the philosopher, yet the difference will be quite inconsiderable. But in what they need for their activities there will be a great difference. Wealth will be needed by the liberal man, that he may act liberally; by the just man, that he may discharge his obligations (for a mere wish cannot be tested,—even unjust people pretend a wish to act justly);. . .

    [...]

    Our conclusion, then, is that happiness is a kind of speculation or contemplation.

    But as we are men we shall need external good fortune also: for our nature does not itself provide all that is necessary for contemplation; the body must be in health, and supplied with food, and otherwise cared for. We must not, however, suppose that because it is impossible to be happy without external good things, therefore a man who is to be happy will want many things or much. It is not the superabundance of good things that makes a man independent, or enables him to act; and a man may do noble deeds, though he be not ruler of land and sea. A moderate equipment may give you opportunity for virtuous action (as we may easily see, for private persons seem to do what is right not less, but rather more, than princes), and so much as gives this opportunity is enough; for that man’s life will be happy who has virtue and exercises it.
    Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, X.8
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