• Benkei
    7.1k
    My grand sci-fi opus

    No seriously, the dictionary recognised, matronise, matron etc. but somehow turns up empty on matronisingly. I ended up hating the sound of it so opted for a more descriptive approach.
  • Hailey
    69
    Vera, are you a writer yourself?
  • Amity
    4.6k
    My grand sci-fi opusBenkei

    Ah. So, they still see things in terms of mummy and daddy? Some things never change...

    I ended up hating the sound of it so opted for a more descriptive approach.Benkei

    Yes, it sounds ridiculous but it does provoke thought. How did the patron or matron aspect turn to a more negative connotation?
    How long a description? The arrogant and condescending female of the species pets the little, big man.

    Sounds like you're having fun!
  • Vera Mont
    3.2k

    Isn't everyone?
    But yes, I have made some efforts at philosophizing and educating through narrative.

    Yes, it sounds ridiculous but it does provoke thought. How did the patron or matron aspect turn to a more negative connotation?Amity

    Patron, when he was a lord bestowing largesse on pet performers, architects and painters, so long as they pleased him. Matron, when the child turned 18, got married or started working.
  • Benkei
    7.1k
    How long a description? The arrogant and condescending female of the species pets the little, big man.Amity

    "She pats my cheek the way a grandmother would pat her favourite, but decidedly stupidest, grandchild."
  • Amity
    4.6k
    "She pats my cheek the way a grandmother would pat her favourite, but decidedly stupidest, grandchild."Benkei

    Brilliant! So grandmatronisingly, then.

    While we're at it.
    Do you have an outline of your novel, or any short story you can share?
    Same question to those who have written formal Outlines.

    I'd love to see an example, if willing to share, thanks.
  • Benkei
    7.1k
    Guy gets set up, is thrown into a typical whodunnit while being chased by the authorities.
  • Amity
    4.6k

    Sounds great but a total cop out! That's a synopsis or summary - it whets the appetite.
    All it gives me is the tone, genre, and theme of the work. Fascinating as that is. It's a tease.

    I get it if you don't have an outline, or one you don't want to share. Somebody might nick your idea!
    But for anything else you've written, like...hmmm...a zombie story...

    Did you have a structure where the plot was broken down into its various parts?
    Some kind of a map from start to end...even if there were changes en route.
  • Benkei
    7.1k
    Yes, but I'm not sharing that. :wink: Also, it's not solid yet, some problems will have to be fixed as I progress with writing. The plot has its fair share of holes at the moment.
  • Amity
    4.6k
    OK. Keep at it!

    Read and tremble:
    A mini-collection of notes penned by writers including James Salter and J.K. Rowling have surfaced. From tables to scrawls to diagrams they are a fascinating look at how authors were inspired to write their classic prose.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2326630/Notes-diagrams-famous-authors-including-J-K-Rowling-Sylvia-Plath-planned-novels.html

    .
  • Vera Mont
    3.2k
    Mine look a bit like that, except they're chapter no--- er, scribbles.
    Example:
    - tour on island - islands, big delta fishing village? Go up to women's huts? with?
    interplanting skree with onesta berry - holds soil
    blue hornet - smaller than sap, burrows, pollinates skree - have Ionel Inel explain
    legumes & howa (turnip), chat (like carrot), rice (sehas) own island, reeds? bamboo?
    stay overnight? priest (75 = 110?) explain discuss in priv conference or over dinner? in hall? house? ship?
    old folks home - skree get samples

    Oola 12
    Malaca Strait > Pian Island > Muala Pian
    night crossing, party on deck,
    barge returns, will change to oceanliner - where was it fitted out?? passengers?
    ^ Kakin, Yaban company, captain, mixed crew
    Planter in charge - Brezzinton - trying to make changes
    dead overseer Swar is Abur's death had 2 illegitimate sons - lawsuit?
    wife Sheree - converts, direct to priest

    13
    discoveries missing people dates; bad planters; unhappy troops
    This year Messenger 6 8 - Sunrise, 6 - Faithful ? came back 4 - Pathfinder - Messenger? - work out sched!! How many troops, girls? rough crossing
    skree harvest starts
    prov. admin cent - hort labs (Manila) Iniol liliam Inilloi - hilltop
    big port, garison - commander? 2nd Gamal - later
    magistrate ? Overseer - luxury & pool

    Year of Ahn 662
    Pathfinder - 652
    Faithful - 654 (returned, back on Earth
    Sunrise - 656
    Messenger- 658
    Valiant - 660
    Steadfast - 662

    Like that, but not so neat; largely ignoring lines and writing diagonally, because the notebook is on the phone stand beside the desk.
  • Benkei
    7.1k
    For larger stories, I start with world building wondering what technology would look like in 100+ years (and I've built my fair share of worlds in the past for d&d). Based on the imagined technology I can imagine what it looks like and what the politics look like. Then I insert a simple plot and start adding layers as I write.

    Edit: actually, my main problem is I don't think I have a consistent writing style yet. Even within a couple of pages and I'm wondering whether it has charm and work, just how Mozart works with his stitching of tiny pays, or if it's just annoying.
  • Amity
    4.6k
    Mine look a bit like that, except they're chapter no--- er, scribbles.
    [...]
    Like that, but not so neat; largely ignoring lines and writing diagonally, because the notebook is on the phone stand beside the desk.
    Vera Mont

    Thank you for a fascinating peek into your writing world.
    I turned to Goodreads to work out which novel...so many! After a quick glance, the sequel to the Ozimord Project looks promising...

    Your outline surprised me. I had imagined it fuller and more organised using computer software.

    my main problem is I don't think I have a consistent writing style yetBenkei

    Isn't that not so much a problem as an exciting challenge as to how flexible styles can be?
    Look at @hypericin - his style varies according to the weather but I think his method stays the same?
    Others take time to find a style that suits and they settle into it.
    Me? I've got no idea. Not sure I'd want to even have a label applied, 'comic fantasist'?!
    What you've written sounds great to me! But is there not a place you can go for 'proper' feedback?

    Anyway - outta here for a wee while. Enjoy!
  • Vera Mont
    3.2k
    Your outline surprised me. I had imagined it fuller and more organised using computer software.Amity

    Hah! The OG foisted a copy of Scrivener on me: it has all the sophisticated computery stuff. And I dislike it intensely. I kept losing notes and searching frantically through all its 'nasty little pocketses'* for the name of a spaceship or town. He practically insisted that I collate the alternating chapters from the three parallel stories in Scrivener, and that was a nightmare.
    See, I started out with a yellow pad and pen during lulls at work, and that's still my most comfortable medium. But I do admit not missing my first portable typewriter. I got a big newspaper office discard after that - a really great machine, except for changing the ribbon.

    (* Smeagol)
  • javi2541997
    5k
    I watched a film of master Akira Kurosawa this afternoon.

    After watching it, I suddenly reminded of an excellent footage where Kurosawa talks about the skill that every writer should have: patience.

    If you already didn't see it, I fully recommend you to do so.

  • I like sushi
    4.3k
    Scrivener is a useful tool for writing.
  • I like sushi
    4.3k
    Decades ahead of his time. Still the best imo
  • Vera Mont
    3.2k

    That's what I was told, over and over. I found it nightmarish.
  • javi2541997
    5k
    Decades ahead of his time. Still the best imoI like sushi

    Exactly. I couldn't have said it better. I personally think that everything about Kurosawa was ahead of his time: screen, aesthetics, photographs, scenario, actors, screenwriting, etc. What a talent, and most importantly, a humbled wise person.
  • javi2541997
    5k
    By the way, today is Kurosawa's 25th anniversary of his death. It is totally a destiny coincidence that we are talking about him today.

    By the spring of 1998, the director was largely confined to bed in his home at Setagaya in Tokyo, spending his time listening to music and watching television. On September 6, 1998, Kurosawa passed away after a stroke. He was 88. The Life of Akira Kurosawa – Part 12: Death and posthumous works (1998)
  • Benkei
    7.1k
    Is there anyone who'd like to proofread my first few chapters to see whether I'm on the right track with world-building and initial character exposition? It's hard sci-fi set in 2130, dystopian, corporate, corrupt and polarized.
  • Vera Mont
    3.2k


    As long its not too violent, I'll do it.
  • Count Timothy von Icarus
    2k


    I finally put a sample chapter up, if you or anyone else is interested.

    The Darkness Before the Light is an epic fantasy novel (think Game of Thrones or The Darkness That Comes Before). The setting is a mix between Reformation Europe and the Wars of Religion, a setting that will allow us to explore theological intricacies, and the early Italian Renaissance, an interesting period for the evolution of warfare, with the advent of canons and the rise of large mercenary companies. A main conceit of the novel is that its sorcery is based on the esoteric traditions of this and earlier periods.

    https://medium.com/@tkbrown413/a-fantasy-novel-based-on-real-world-esoteric-systems-the-darkness-above-the-light-sample-chapter-53da1fe4de48
  • Vera Mont
    3.2k
    I finally put a sample chapter up, if you or anyone else is interested.Count Timothy von Icarus

    Put it up where?
  • Count Timothy von Icarus
    2k


    lol, it's only accessible through the Emerald Tablet and ascending up the Sepirot! Or... I've forgotten to include the link and just added it. :cool:
  • Vera Mont
    3.2k
    I finally put a sample chapter up, if you or anyone else is interested.Count Timothy von Icarus

    That's supposed to be a first draft?? I'm hard put to get something that polished with three edits. Very sophisticated writing.
    The subject leaves me lukewarm, I'm afraid and there is too much explanation at the beginning. I think it might work better interspersed with some dialogue and activity, or even a description of the surroundings.
    One tiny note: to call a man Frau might be misleading.
  • 180 Proof
    14.1k
    I love R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing trilogy (though not so much GRR Martin's GoT slog – I never made it pass the first two volumes a decade before the HBO show) and your writing seems on par with Bakker and yet, like Vera Mont, it leaves me cold (so far). Maybe it's the European-ish (late Renaissance) milieu which doesn't fire my imagination. Also, less magic is much more for me – more believable when its mysterious and unpredictable (chaotic, not arbitrary), and revealed gradually by the plot – rather than its strangeness explained away (possibly) for the reader's convenience.

    Anyway, it's your tale, Count, so tell it and I/we will read on as long as you hold us. Btw, I've tried writing in the fantasy (folklorish) genre a couple of years back for TPF's first short story contest. My story is linked below, a rough draft followed by charitable comments some of which, no doubt, will help me whenever I come back to it either to expand and polish the story or develop it as a chapter in a longer piece or as an 'episode' for an anthology of linked stories which explore the same setting (world). An experiment more than anything else, not my usual style; I enjoyed it though the jury (in my head) is still out on the tale's merits. I wonder what a fantasist like you might make of my attempt ...

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11526/good-stew-by-180-proof/p1

    @Vera Mont
  • Amity
    4.6k

    I read your post and then re-read 'Good Stew'. It was worth it; interesting to revisit old comments.
    I look forward to reading the views of @Count Timothy von Icarus and @Vera Mont and anyone else new to the story.

    Your responses to the readers' questions were excellent, clear and again thought-provoking:

    Amity: What vows and to whom, why and why not. The reader has more questions.

    180 Proof: The author has more questions too! Good reason to extend the tale and flesh out the background.

    Amity: Talking about hunger, still no mention of this 'Good Stew'...unless, unless...
    It's a 'God Puzzle'...or an anxiety over what is the right thing to do.
    A different kind of a recipe to follow, for a good life.

    180 Proof: The Socratic question, no?

    180 Proof: "What would form the basis...why knowledge, of course.
    OM wants to make sure she knows what she needs to know before she can 'properly' choose to join in
    Jaquan's fate or not."
    As Socrates says (paraphrasing) 'There is one good and that is knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.'
    Good Stew - 180 Proof

    ***
    I contrasted the high risks or stakes in your story, re truth and knowledge, with those in TPF.
    What it means for an individual's sense of wellbeing if their beliefs are overturned. Personal, psychological and political. It might not seem 'risky' simply to talk or question but a lot depends on the intentions/aims of other participants.

    The short stories and fiction can raise philosophical questions in a more creative, perhaps acceptable way - all the better to digest 'A Good Stew'!

    ***
    I also put forward a suggestion re The Symposium in contrast to The Lounge ( where this discussion has been moved between my readings and response!) I had to search for it...

    [Plato's Symposium seems to be about a convivial meeting with each participant giving a speech.
    Taking turns. Perhaps a desire for a sense of unity, even as they differ.
    ...an interesting way forward in TPF's very own 'Symposium'?
    To include 'Speeches' about e.g. Eros or eros of. [specific topic]

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/585578

    ***
    ...whenever I come back to it either to expand and polish the story or develop it as a chapter in a longer piece or as an 'episode' for an anthology of linked stories which explore the same setting (world). An experiment more than anything else, not my usual style; I enjoyed it though the jury (in my head) is still out on the tale's merits180 Proof

    I think it would work really well as an 'episode' in a novel of linked short stories.
    I've developed a love of that form. Perhaps because it's easier to read!
  • Vera Mont
    3.2k
    I don't think it needs to be longer; I think it could use a little tightening here and there. It seems to me a bit hesitant at the start, a bit vague. How did she get there? Where did she meet her lover, without the old man knowing? Then the pack animal resolves into a horse. I like that he has a name, but find it odd that he and the absent lover have names, while the main characters have none.
    Is that nit-picking?
    The mythology is interesting, though I don't quite follow all of it. There is some wonderful description and imagery.
    I can definitely see this in a larger context - I suppose the novel would have to be about the adventures of the heroine and her mercenary, so this would be at the beginning.
  • Amity
    4.6k
    I like that he has a name, but find it odd that he and the absent lover have names, while the main characters have none.
    Is that nit-picky?
    Vera Mont

    No. The lack of names made it difficult to refer to the characters. It's why I gave them titles of my own!
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