Also, the question "Who designed the designer?" is invalid because it's like asking "Who taught Helio Gracie jiu-jitsu?" - — gevgala
Here is the argument:
Premise 1: The concept of a designer necessarily requires a starting point.
Premise 2: If the designer was designed, then there must have been another designer that preceded it, leading to an infinite regress.
Conclusion: Therefore, the designer must have been the starting point, and not designed by another entity. — gevgala
I would like to introduce an argument in response to the "Who Designed the Designer" argument. The "Who Designed the Designer" argument raises the question of who or what designed the designer, leading to an infinite regress. However, I believe that this question is invalid, and that the concept of a designer necessarily requires a starting point. — gevgala
The 'appearance of there being a design' is an argument that Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett make - that living things appear to be designed, but that each of the components of the overall organism arises without a designer, purely as a result of chance and necessity - that some things just happen on the molecular level that then give rise to necessary outcomes due to physical laws. — Wayfarer
It looks to me as if the universe is more about chaos and entropy than order - black holes being so bountiful and an entire creation on earth predicated on needless suffering in the wilderness, not to mention the cruelties of almost universal predation and the bountiful range of poorly designed features of what we know as corporeal life - innumerable diseases, cancer, MS, Parkinson's, leprosy, etc... — Tom Storm
Maybe the designer/s wanted these things as part of the design, i.e., to create a challenging place to experience. — Sam26
In short I would require that the following points made in the following article be refuted. They haven't been and stand as defeaters of the so-called "argument".180 Proof So, what would count as evidence of intelligent design? In other words, what evidence would you require? — Sam26
and yet you asked anyway and I replied with two links to articles which corroborated my initial comment. Clearly, you've either not read what I've proffered or do not understand what you read or you're disingenously denying the facts stated therein. In any case, I'm not going waste any more time discussing "ID" unless, of course, you can demonstrate that "ID" is an explanatory model and thereby derive testable predictions from it (which none of it's proponents have done to date).... ID makes no unique, testable predictions either. — 180 Proof
There is also the question of why reality should be subject to human reason and why we should have the capacity to understand it. — Andrew4Handel
I'll ask you the same question I asked ↪180 Proof, what would count as evidence of intelligent design in the universe? What things are lacking? — Sam26
So you must believe we're alway being watched because "all around us" on sunny days we see 'faces in clouds'.People ask where is the evidence for design. Well it is all around us. — Andrew4Handel
Usually the reason we know something is designed in life is because we already know it is designed - it's manufactured and distributed by channels and makers we can go to and meet and we can understand (almost fully) how and why it was made. — Tom Storm
One of the odd consequences of the argument against design is that the only creatures that we know of that are capable of designing is h. sapiens. — Wayfarer
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.