• universeness
    119

    Thanatos never existed, just a fable, never existed so never slept, was never born and never disassembled.
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    Thanatos never existed, just a fable, never existed so never slept, was never born and never disassembled.universeness

    Good logic!
  • universeness
    119


    Thanks, but that raises another interesting question. 'Good logic' from a duelist standpoint suggests the existence of 'evil logic.' Was Plato's Logos (the source of the word logic) intended as a philosophical 'singularity.' (the root of the platonic forms), Was logos presented by Plato as a construct which was capable of the state 'good' or 'evil?' If so, then did Plato ever suggest a mechanism for movement between the two states?
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    Good, evil, logic. Sleep, death, I don't see a connection unless...you mean to say the sleep of reason (logic) begets monsters (death-dealers).
  • universeness
    119

    No, my mind jumps around a lot. I've been accused/described in the past as having a butterfly mind (constantly jumps from plant to plant seeking nourishment). Digression from the main thread of a discussion, can be a tendency I do not control as well as I probably should.
    Rather than connections between human sleep and death. Your 'good logic' comment made me jump to Plato's Logos. Much of Western civilization is built on Plato and the Christians have certainly used his musings to push their viewpoints. I was just commenting about the posit that the Logos is portrayed as the 'origin point', 'the beginning', 'the singularity', from which the platonic forms originate. It therefore must be (only from Plato's musings of course) the origin of the moral concepts of good and evil. The logos was associated with the sun, which was considered good. But good in the sense that it provided warmth? or morally good?
    I don't think 'good logic' and 'evil logic' can be used in the moral sense. I think you have successful logic and incorrect logic or logical thought that turns out to be incorrect under testing.
    A good murderer would be a successful one, that's logical, perhaps even good logic but 'good murderer' would be taken by most as a morally reprehensible statement.
    A lion kills and consumes a baby deer. That's good logic on the part of the lion as it helps the lion maintain its systems. I don't think the deer would see it that way if it has the consciousness level required for the analysis. I don't think humans would call the Lion evil due to such actions.
    I think much clearer definitions and understanding of the labels good and evil are required if humans are ever to progress enough to be able to overcome the evolutionary fear they formed from their time in the wild and finally get rid of the need for gods and monsters.h


    This should be a different thread so please don't let my tendency to digress skew this interesting current thread
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    Please continue...it looks interesting.
  • Raymond
    649
    and finally get rid of the need for gods and monsters.huniverseness

    To be superseded by new monsters? So called objective monsters?



    Logos was invented to make a connection of the forms Plato thought existed in the metaphysical realm of mathematical objects. Only logic could describe them approximately and mathematical logic supposed to be the best approximation. This begs the question.

    Thanatos is no fable. Together with Hypnos he had a grip on humanity and made them sleep and let them die.
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    Yes butterfly monkey mind! It's a compliment.

    However, you're not doing it right or in an interesting way. You need more practice I'm afraid. Keep at it.
  • universeness
    119

    You can choose any other lifeform you like, I prefer any such like, to the easily duped mind of the theist.



    This begs what question?

    I don't know if you are serious about Thanatos but just in case, If Thanatos existed then so does Thor, the Hulk, Spiderman etc. In fact, there is better evidence for their existence than there is for Thanatos. Fables all. Stories to entertain, nothing more.
    The term objective monster has no meaning to me.
    Are you theistic?
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    You can choose any other lifeform you like, I prefer any such like, to the easily duped mind of the theist.universeness

    I want to see your butterfly monkey mind in full bloom! Go on...show us your stuff!
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    Are you Theist?universeness

    You decide. What does it matter anyway? Being a theist doesn't help me get a raise, it might get me fired though. Hmmmm. It does matter.
  • universeness
    119

    If you give permission for others to decide or dictate who you are and what you represent then you leave yourself open to accusations of thoughtlessness and risk quick dismissal of your voice as irrelevant.
  • Raymond
    649
    Are you theistic?universeness

    Of course I am. But I leave the gods to their own devices. Who else can have created the universe? Thanatos and Hypnos were once reality. These days they battle each other far away from us. But they still make us sleep an die. They are replaced by laws of nature, which are just as fable like. I haven't encountered a single law yet.

    This begs what question?universeness

    About the reality of a mathematical metaphysical universe.
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    If you give permission for others to decide or dictate who you are and what you represent then you leave yourself open to accusations of thoughtlessness and risk quick dismissal of your voice as irrelevantuniverseness

    Sound advice. However, I'm not just a collection of ideas, am I?
  • universeness
    119

    Fair enough. "I leave the gods to their own devices," would suggest you are not monotheistic, is that accurate?
    At what point in the estimated 4 billion years of the Earth do you think these two superheroes existed.
    Where is this far-away place where they now exist? By what mechanism do they influence our sleep and death? By what mechanism does an immortal get "replaced by a law of nature", which you then contradict with your opinion, that laws of nature don't exist. The points you make are at best fallacious and at worse ridiculous and leave you at risk of ridicule.


    "Just a collection of ideas, no, a sentient being with the capability of thought, yes. An acceptable and impressive description of a human in my opinion. You are certainly capable of verbalising more impressive thinking than your earlier "Show us your stuff," which is a sexual request and something a monkey might do to display its willingness to defend its territory by force. Was that the imagery you were going for?
  • universeness
    119

    I would like to alter my description to 'A sentient being with the capability of RATIONAL thought.'
  • Xtrix
    2.9k
    Is going to sleep routinely kind of like an acceptance of death? Of the unknown?TiredThinker

    I think so, yes. It's similar to fear of the dark, in kids and adults. But it's even more superficial than that: it's the discomfort associated with stopping. This is why problems around sleep are so common -- it's cultural. We're overworked and overstimulated, and now technology has conditioned our brains to be constantly moving.

    I think assigning some days to having no inputs, walking in the woods more often, and meditation can all help with this.
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    "Just a collection of ideas, no, a sentient being with the capability of thought, yes. An acceptable and impressive description of a human in my opinion. You are certainly capable of verbalising more impressive thinking than your earlier "Show us your stuff," which is a sexual request and something a monkey might do to display its willingness to defend its territory by force. Was that the imagery you were going for?universeness

    You crack me up!

    Merriam-Webster Dictionary defintion of "show one's stuff"

    (Informal):  to show what one is able to do : to show one's skills The competition gives young performers a chance to show their stuff.

    Clearly you're not a 100% there!
  • universeness
    119

    In Carl Sagan's 'The Demon Hunted World' and 'The Dragons of Eden,' He discusses this area.
    Early humans would hunt by day as they could not see in the dark. As well as other sources, they hunted reptiles and raided their nests for eggs. At night the reptiles would hunt humans and attack the in their caves. The sounds shhhhhhh and pssssssst are thought to be amoungst the earliest sounds made by humans and were warnings sounds made by humans. Theses sounds mimic the sounds made by reptiles and warned of the vicinity of a reptile threat. This early struggle between reptiles and humans is thought to be why we learned to be afraid of the dark. Nothing about this is supernatural.
    Natural selection/evolution came up with a few different mechanisms for efficient 'maintenance' routines.
    Hibernation evolved to respond to a habitat in which few resources were available in winter and plenty in spring/summer. Some creatures enter cocoon states to morph into better adaptations of their former condition. Nightly sleep in humans probably developed due to 'not much else to do efficiently, when you cant see in the dark.' I don't think there is much evidence for a general "discomfort associated with stopping.' If you try not to stop or sleep for long enough you will simply collapse.
  • universeness
    119

    I'm sorry to "crack you up", especially for anyone out there who believes humpty dumpty was real and still exists in a very far away place.
    I accept that the imagery in your head for "show us your stuff", was your dictionary definition and not related to the actions of a monkey when they feel threatened. Perhaps this is an example of why people have to think carefully before they transfer their thoughts to text as their choice of words/turn of phrase etc are very important. They speak loudly as to who you are! Perhaps you should watch more YouTube debates involving such people as Dan Dennet, Steve Pinker, Matt Dillahunty, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins et al and you will witness how carefully they choose their words.
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    Your inability to understand common phrases/idioms is your problem, not mine.

    Perhaps you should watch more YouTube debates involving such people as Dan Dennet, Steve Pinker, Matt Dillahunty, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins et aluniverseness

    I do watch videos of these people. Thanks for the reminder.
  • universeness
    119

    I understand common phrases/idioms very well but such common phrases/idioms can have multiple meanings, it comes down to context and you used "show us your stuff" in the same sentence as 'monkey brain.'
    I have accepted your claim that you were using your dictionary description but you may be attempting to deceive, only you know. I see no problem here that I need to consider.
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    monkey brainuniverseness

    Monkey Mind. I thought you knew.
  • universeness
    119

    The human mind is contained in the human brain, did you know?
  • theRiddler
    144
    A complete description of how the human brain relates to the cosmos?

    Anyone? Anyone?

    No? Then stfu.
  • Xtrix
    2.9k
    I don't think there is much evidence for a general "discomfort associated with stopping.' If you try not to stop or sleep for long enough you will simply collapse.universeness

    There is a lot of evidence about it, actually. It's not a matter of not sleeping -- of course we all sleep. But the quality of sleep and the length of sleep has changed, largely due to cell phone usage. You can see it with prescriptions for sleep medications as well.
  • Agent Smith
    1.2k
    The human mind is contained in the human brain, did you know?universeness

    Category mistake.
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