• Manuel
    3k


    :lol:

    Oh man, getting a wake up call for that message might turn me into murder mode for several minutes.

    But yeah, I'd agree.
  • 180 Proof
    10.2k
    Medication + therapy first. Then philosophy.darthbarracuda
    :100: :strong: Glad you made it, man!

    I believe that we are right now part of All, but we are merely a part of it. When we die, we become it.James Riley
    Automatically (e.g. dao, tát tvam ási ... or Tipler's "Omega Point") or through life-long cultivation (e.g. mokṣa, gnōsis ... or Spinoza's "infinite intellect")?

    :rofl:
  • Shawn
    12.1k


    That was a treat watching. Thanks.
  • James Riley
    2.9k
    Automatically (e.g. dao, tát tvam ási ... or Tipler's "Omega Point") or through life-long cultivation (e.g. mokṣa, gnōsis ... or Spinoza's "infinite intellect")?180 Proof

    I'm not sure on that one. My wife talks about levels (?) and some folks are closer to this or that than others. I'm not sure I'm into all that, but if that's the way it works, my narcisism likes to fancy itself as on the highest level :rofl:. But it wouldn't have to be that way. It could be just automatic. I'm inclined to think that we aren't important enough to be part of a system that earns chits for the next tour. But I could be wrong. Automatic sounds more reasonable to me.

    I imagine it's so perfect being All that most parts don't want to come back for another tour of duty (as a rock or a human, or a molocule on the back side of that distant planet that we'll never know exists); but it's possible we do want to come back. Probably not out of bordom with perfection, but just stepping up. After all, somebody has to do it. I mean, if the universe is going to experience itself, it needs parts out there being parts.
  • Amity
    3.5k

    Thanks for for this 18:12 minute video of Herbert Fingarette, recorded in 2018 and wiki link.
    I wonder how many had heard of this philosopher/educator/author before this was produced.

    A poignant story with background music - classical and moving - as he remembers times spent with his wife, listening and holding hands. Leslie died 7yrs ago.

    Now, he talks about the challenges of being lonely and dependent on others. Half of him has gone.
    He conducts the music, he tells us that, "Loneliness and absence is actual part of life".
    Note well, it is 'actual' not 'absolute' as per subtitles.
    His wife's absence is a 'presence'.

    He revises his writing re Death.
    He feels his statement that 'it isn't rational to fear death' was not a good one.
    From his current perspective, he thinks it is important to figure out why we are concerned with death. There is a sense of realism. Whether there's a good reason or not, the idea of dying soon haunts him. The question as so often arises - "What is the point of it all?"

    This philosopher is still trying to figure out - "What is going on ?"
    The issues are hard. He doesn't want death to happen, even if life is messy.
    He asks why he would still want to hang around...
    Concludes: there is no basic reason.
    "I'm going to leave, what does it mean ?"

    Apparently only now realises and marvels at the beauty, wonder and transcendence of trees blowing in the breeze. This brings tears to his eyes. Only now ?

    When he wrote his books he felt he had solved problems - but thinking about death:
    "...this is not resolvable. Not theoretical. It is central to existence".
    Something he tells us he has failed to come to terms with.
    Now, he thinks that the truth is he is existing and waiting.
    "Waiting until I have to say good-bye".

    --------

    From wiki:

    Fingarette's work deals with issues in philosophy of mind, psychology, ethics, law, and Chinese philosophy...

    Fingarette also influentially applied his work in moral psychology to pressing social and legal issues, particularly those surrounding addiction. In his 1988 book Heavy Drinking, Fingarette challenges the disease theory of alcoholism popularized by groups such as Alcoholics Anonymous.

    Fingarette's arguments were employed by the U.S. Supreme Court in a 1988 decision to deny VA educational benefits to two alcoholic American veterans.
    Wiki: Fingarette

    How on earth did a philosopher's theory come to be used in this way ?
    To deny American veterans education. Outrageous.
    Where was the mental health support ?
    I can't imagine Fingarette would have been happy with his work being applied like this.
  • TheMadFool
    13.9k
    Well, taking my cue from Socrates, possibly others I'm unaware of, philosophy was/(is still?) an extremely lethal disease. I can't find a reasonable explanation for why anyone would want to follow in the footsteps of someone who was executed for doing what he did - philosophizing. It's as if philosophers, free thinkers in general, have a death wish. Are we like moths attracted to the flames (of veritas)? :chin: Something sinister about the truth. A friend once commented, I think it was more of a warning, that it was better not to understand.
  • Amity
    3.5k
    Medication + therapy first. Then philosophy.darthbarracuda

    Yes, in extremely debilitating cases and depending on cause, I think it important to first heal the brain. Treatment(s) will vary.
    As you say, there's a process before one might have the capacity to think straight.

    I got pretty close to offing myself several years back, some people here might remember my first posts in the old forum...I didn't need philosophy, I needed a balanced neurochemistry. Thankfully I managed to get things more or less in line, though it took years.darthbarracuda

    Sorry to hear of your experience and glad you have thing 'more or less in line'.
    This suggests that there is no permanent 'cure' as such and needs continual monitoring.
    I think that sounds right for any of our incapacitating mental problems. Some much more intransigent than others. 'Taking years' - to try and find whatever works best...and changing if necessary.
    I hope the healing process continues well for you.

    Philosophy is only helpful if you have the capacity to form rational judgements of it, otherwise it's dangerous. Very easy to put people over the edge, after which they're liable to do something stupid and hurt themselves or someone else. It's why I try to be gentle to people online, even if they get on my nerves; you never know what they are going through and what role your words might play in their fatedarthbarracuda

    Philosophy - if seen as a way of life - a continual process of critical thinking with element of self-analysis can have its dangerous moments. But danger isn't always a bad thing, is it ?
    I agree that exercising judgement in deciding what is of value is paramount.
    Also, that we can all be more vulnerable at certain times and need to be careful in what we say and how we say it.
    Philosophy is not for the faint-hearted.
    Words and knowledge are key to understanding. If we only want to read or hear the things that make us comfortable, stay within our comfort zones, then stay well clear of philo forums !

    It is about listening and asking questions when we don't understand, not simply dismissing...
    And then going out and enjoying the trees in the breeze. Balance.
    So, now outta here - good to talk :smile:
  • I like sushi
    3.9k
    don't steer them toward psychology, where they might get a degree, and a license, and start blindly leading the blind. Instead, have them study philosophy.James Riley

    I would say studying both and include many other fields too (specifically in the same area are anthropology, politics, history, neuroscience, ancient history and the biological behavioral sciences).
  • I like sushi
    3.9k
    To add ... there is no substitute for experience. Most understanding (in any depth) comes with age not merely intellect. I wouldn't recommend anyone under 20 (or perhaps 25) to take either philosophy or psychology to too much a depth. They are just not equipped with enough life experience to fathom the nuances. A basic mathematical and scientific background would do wonders to help them set up a foundation so later destroy via other means, or build upon, if they so desire once they get strangled by life a little harder ;)
  • Ciceronianus
    2.5k
    Here's the real cure; perhaps it may be called philosophical:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M
  • Write on Writer
    4
    I think most people lack the humility to say: I don't know.

    There is scientific evidence to support that the Earth is a globe.
    There is little scientific evidence to support the underlying theories of psychiatry and psychology.

    The brain can be located in the body. The psyche is a translation for an old-Greek word for soul. We don't even know if such a thing exists.

    Right now everyone on the internet is expressing their creative writing and typing skill. They think they are speaking from the heart. That is all very poetic and nice, but as far as we understand it emotions are formed in the brain. And writing and speaking is not the same thing.

    I prefer the word humbleness anyway. Humility reminds me too much of humiliation.

    The humbleness to study philosophy
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