• EnPassant
    539
    You and TheMadFool have everything backwards. And you believe that that is how it is. That's how strong your faith is.god must be atheist

    Matter is not a substance it is a mathematical concept. It is a pattern in an energy field. These patterns can be described mathematically. Matter is a concept in God's mind.
  • javi2541997
    989
    Matter is a concept in God's mind.EnPassant

    What?
  • EnPassant
    539
    Nonsense. If everything counts as evidence, then nothing counts as evidence.180 Proof

    That depends on how you define evidence. I'm defining evidence as what exists be it a dust mote or a galaxy or anything in between. 'Evidence for' is not something that is objectively 'out there'. There is no "evidence for" anything out there in reality because "evidence for" is in the understanding, in the mind.
    Evidence is mute. It only becomes evidence for something in our understanding. This is an important distinction.
  • EnPassant
    539
    What?javi2541997

    Matter is two things. The substance of matter is energy. The form of matter is geometry. When energy cools it condenses into material patterns - like water forming ice crystals. These patterns are physical objects like a hydrogen atom, a rock, a planet...
    These patterns can dissolve away as matter returns to its energy state. Material objects are transient patterns not substances.
  • javi2541997
    989


    Yes, I understand what matter is, but why do you mix it with religion saying is in God’s mind?
  • EnPassant
    539
    Yes, I understand what matter is, but why do you mix it with religion saying is in God’s mind?javi2541997

    If God created the material universe then it follows logically that matter is a concept in God's mind. Matter is not an eternal substance, it is a mathematical idea. And if God exists that is where the idea originated, right?
  • javi2541997
    989
    And if God exists that is where the idea originated, right?EnPassant

    The premise is wrong since the moment that you cannot prove God’s existence at all. Believing or not in something so personal as religion is free to someone’s thoughts. But I guess we should not mix it with science to be honest...
    God never “created” the material universe neither the matter, universe and earth we live in. Science is the main academic source which develop and research the principles about physics writing tons of proofs and investigations.
    God and religion are just beliefs...
  • EnPassant
    539
    God and religion are just beliefs...javi2541997

    The main point I'm making is that matter is a mathematical reality and this is evidence for God's existence since a mathematical concept needs a mind to originate in.
  • javi2541997
    989
    The main point I'm making is that matter is a mathematical reality and this is evidence for God's existence since a mathematical concept needs a mind to originate in.EnPassant

    But why maths and matter need to be related to God? How do you know God has a “mind”?
  • EnPassant
    539
    How do you know God has a “mind”?javi2541997

    If God created the universe He must be very smart indeed and have something that our word 'mind' approximates.
  • javi2541997
    989
    God created the universeEnPassant

    Prove me he created the universe. I am waiting here.
  • TheMadFool
    12.6k
    Matter is not a substance it is a mathematical concept.EnPassant

    Bingo! Matter is anything that has mass and has volume; both mass and volume are mathematically defined.
  • EnPassant
    539
    Bingo! Matter is anything that has mass and has volume; both mass and volume are mathematically defined.TheMadFool

    Yes, even mass is understood to be a process, not a substance. See Higg's Field.
  • TheMadFool
    12.6k


    A little something to ponder upon:

    1. We don't know the answer to "are we alone?"

    but,

    2. If there are aliens, we know the answer to their question, "are we alone?" No, definitely not!

    I propose a new question be formulated: are they (aliens) alone? No!
  • TheMadFool
    12.6k
    A little something to ponder upon:

    1. We don't know the answer to "are we alone?"

    but,

    2. If there are aliens, we know the answer to their question, "are we alone?" No, definitely not!

    I propose a new question be formulated: are they (aliens) alone? No!
    TheMadFool

    Fitch's paradox of knowability:

    1. Assumption: Everything is knowable
    2. Conclusion: Everything is known

    Suppose Fitch's argument is sound.

    3. Everything is known (collective omniscience).
    4. Not everything is known to humans.
    Ergo,
    5. Aliens exist.

    We are not alone.

    QED
  • TheMadFool
    12.6k
    Abusrdum sans reductio! :smile:
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