• khaled
    5
    So 'I knew' means the picture I had of X matched the way X really was. Substitute those meanings into our tricky sentences and they are safely conserved between tenses.Isaac

    No they aren’t? If you’re wrong about something.

    So for instance “I know England is gonna win tomorrow”. England loses. Now I say, “I thought I knew England was gonna win tomorrow, but I didn’t”. Now the first sentence is not conserved. The picture I had of the outcome of the match did not match the outcome of the match.

    This is why I prefer a degree of confidence model. Since we say things like “England is gonna win tomorrow, I just know it” all the time. And in those instances we use know to express a degree of confidence.

    I hadn’t thought of sentences like: “I thought I knew England was gonna win tomorrow, but I didn’t” because I never hear anyone say that. When they want to express the idea that they were wrong they usually just say “I thought England was gonna win, but they didn’t”.

    It seems we’re not entirely consistent in our usage. Sometimes we seem to be using a correspondence definition. Sometimes we seem to be using a degree of confidence definition.
  • Cheshire
    12
    I'm largely in agreement with your criticisms, but the phrase "I just know it" is an idiom. It's nonsensical to take it literally; with the exception of inductive certainty. Like, I know the sun will rise tomorrow because of the arrangement of the solar system and rotation of the planet.
  • Isaac
    13
    No they aren’t? If you’re wrong about something.

    So for instance “I know England is gonna win tomorrow”. England loses. Now I say, “I thought I knew England was gonna win tomorrow, but I didn’t”. Now the first sentence is not conserved.
    khaled

    I meant the the meaning of the word was conserved, not the truth of the entire proposition.

    “I know England is gonna win tomorrow” is a claim - that my picture of England winning tomorrow matches the reality of tomorrow.

    “I thought I knew England was gonna win tomorrow, but I didn’t” retains the meaning of 'knew' (where by 'meaning' here I just mean to be synonymous). It still means 'my picture of England winning tomorrow matches the reality of tomorrow.' - if I replace it, the sentence retains its meaning.

    “I thought my picture of England winning tomorrow matched the reality of tomorrow, but it didn’t”.

    It seems we’re not entirely consistent in our usage. Sometimes we seem to be using a correspondence definition. Sometimes we seem to be using a degree of confidence definition.khaled

    Yes, I think that's true (by which I mean I'm quite confident - 'True' suffers from the same problem!).
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