• unintelligiblekai
    Yet another thread about time. I was thinking yesterday of a very vague idea that I'd like opinions on. So then if we took a "snapshot" of this very moment with it's totality, that being: The position of every single object, cell and et cetera. And had the ability to manipulate matter in such a way that we can reposition new "environmental" circumstances into the ones that we have snapshotted, would that not be considered time travel? If anybody ever has watched "Watchmen" and know of Dr.manhattan I ask this question as regarding his fictional abilities. Those being the ability to manipulate a surrounding environment to a total extent, whatever that may be.
  • TheMadFool
    Which leads us to the conclusion that time could be an illusion. We have this notion, we've given it a name - time - but what we're actually tracking is change.

    This just popped into my head: I always believed that animals, specifically predators - big cats especially - had a sense of time which if it isn't chronos is definitely kairos for they have to, as I initially assumed, know when to begin their chase for the selected prey animal. This, however, could be an illusion because there's the possibility that the chase begins not in a temporal context wherein the lion/tiger, in its mind, comes to the conclusion that "yes, this is the right moment to begin my chase" but what actually goes on in the lion's/tiger's mind is a spatial calculation as in "this is the optimum distance for a successful chase". The two - temporal vs spatial reasoning vis-à-vis hunting - appear to be indistinguishable. The question that naturally arises is, can this be true of us too? In the simplest sense, could time be space? :chin:
  • SpaceDweller

    Hypothetically yes but the laws of physics as we know it do not allow travel into the past.

    Some theories, most notably special and general relativity, suggest that suitable geometries of spacetime or specific types of motion in space might allow time travel into the past and future if these geometries or motions were possible.

    Time travel into the past It is therefore theoretically not possible, but due to lack of our knowledge about universe your hypothesis is not completely invalid.
  • SpaceDweller
    In the simplest sense, could time be space?TheMadFool

    I would say no because then we can assume "non movement" trough space as stopping (or slowing down) the time which isn't the cause.

    A question may arise, what about inanimate nature? it is subject to time as well.
  • TheMadFool
    I would say no because then we can assume "non movement" trough space as stopping (or slowing down) the time which isn't the cause.

    A question may arise, what about inanimate nature? it is subject to time as well.

    Imagine yourself deer hunting with a compound bow. You see a deer but you realize it's not in range. You, as quietly as possible, close in on the hapless deer. It's now inside your bow's kill zone. What goes on inside your head? Do you tell yourself, "this is the right moment to release my arrow"? or do you think, "this is the right distance for a killshot"? Could a disinterested observer figure out which of the two thoughts mentioned above determined your actions? If yes, how? If no, I rest my case. Sorry for repeating myself but I needed to clarify things to myself and to you too.
  • SpaceDweller
    "this is the right distance for a killshot?"TheMadFool

    I may say "this is the right distance for a killshot?"
    Isn't my thinking in this sense merely my judgement? a mental ability.

    How does my judgement about distance affect time?

    We know measuring distance is not same as measuring time because of speed factor (ex. the speed of my arrow), therefore we could also say "this is the right moment to release my arrow?"
    But doesn't this depend on relative speed of the arrow and the speed of the deer?

    Isn't relative speed affecting both scenarios?

    We know relative speed can make our perception about time wrong, did you ever walk train station in opposite direction of the moving train?
    You must have noticed the station moving and the train staying in place right? :smile:

    Does the train station example affect time or distance or something else? and if so why?
  • TheMadFool
    :ok: Just a random thought of mine. I suppose it's facile enough to be dismissed from the outset.
  • MondoR
    So then if we took a "snapshot" of this very moment with it's totality, that being:unintelligiblekai

    You cannot, but you can imagine it. Time is what is and what is unfolding. There is no traveling in time, only change that we feel, like molding a piece of clay.
  • unintelligiblekai
    what a nice thought pattern you had. I Suppose to your animal wonderings we could assume that some animals, have a biological system like ours that regulate sleep patterns. They also experience hunger and it could be through their routine that their appetite begins at certain periods of the day.
  • xavipi4280

    Yes, had same idea few years ago it is entirely possible we do similar thing in computers when we do a "save" or "checkpoint" the only thing is even if knew all variables needed for a specific state of a universe, how do we push them to atoms? I like to call it state traveling much more fitting and theoretically speaking once we invent a machine to capture and push state through whole wide universe we would be able to calculate past based on it to its correct form then universe would become huge game where we change variables to state we need, sounds fun :)
  • xavipi4280
    would that not be considered time travel?unintelligiblekai
    Yes that is correct form of "time" traveling, it's just hollywood concept for people to imagine it
  • Enrique

    What about sending a signal into the past or future rather than a macroscopic object? This seems more possible, less impeded by classical physics, if a form of energy wave that transmits information fast enough is discovered. What if we could turn on a device and get detailed engineering blueprints from thousands of years in the future or receive messages from distant parts of the galaxy?
  • justanorganism
    how do you believe a signal could be sent to the past?
  • Enrique

    It would have to be via a kind of wave that is independent of electromagnetic matter, maybe dark matter, perturbing faster than the speed of light or penetrating more deeply into reality's underlying structure. Whether a technology of time traveling waves is possible depends on the orientation of thus far unknown matter to known matter and the logistics of generating these waves, but it intuitively seems to me as if some mechanism of this type must exist. Maybe studying the way brains transmit energy would be a good start, the technology could initiate with a more substantive model of near instantaneous and retroactive causality in nature. I think its more likely we can obtain a digitalized signal from the future because there are no receiver devices in the past. Of course you have to make sure that it wouldn't leave a path of devastation in its wake, but a harmless incarnation probably exists.
  • Corvus
    Time doesn't exist. What we call time is a contract between all humans and its societies in this world. It is only memories we all have about past events, and people seem confuse the past memories as time. There is only intervals, but nothing flows or moves. It is just illusion of memories and imagination.

    For instance, a society or country can make new time contract that from tomorrow, it will be year 0, and a day will be 40 hours, and a month will be 100 days, and run it like that. I think historically Cambodia had done it sometime in 1970s. And initially people will get confused or feel chaos on the time perception, but they will get used to it.

    So, yes time travel is possible, but only in memories and imaginations and the movies. No, it is not possible in real life.

    What we have is eternal present called "Now", from which no existence can escape until their consciousness fades away.
  • jgill
    What about sending a signal into the past or future rather than a macroscopic object?Enrique

    This is a really good movie incorporating your idea: Prince of Darkness
  • FreeEmotion
    I think time travel is possible, the past will include the time travel event as part of history. For example, you travel back to 1870, wait for a few minutes and then come back. People will see you appear for a few minutes and disappear.

    All causal events stemming from the time travel will be recorded as having an unexplained cause.

    I have read some stories of alleged time travel, and it seems to be possible to fit them into a consistent picture of the universe and reality.

  • Lexa

    would that not be considered time travel?unintelligiblekai

    I don't think that would be considered time travel, you would still be moving forward through time while you change the environment. Theoretically, if you also knew the exact placement of every particle in the past you could recreate a past situation, but recreation would not be traveling back and viewing it in time it actually happened. The only way to see into the past would be to somehow transfer yourself to a far distant place with a telescope to view earth as it was in the past. Also you can already travel forward in time by going very fast.
  • flannel jesus
    yes, effectively, if you could match the physical arrangement of a previous period in time, there's not much distinguishing that from time travel I suppose. I mean, to do it fully you'd have to reposition every atom in the universe, but you could I suppose do it at just, say, the scale of a planet and it would be good enough.

    It's of course not practically possible.
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