Loud applause to the logical adult!!!!
(Y) (Y) (Y)

Is that really puzzling? We are talking about a group of people with a very limited and ignorant view of the world. — Emptyheady

I am sorry, which party are you slamming here?
Yours or mine? Pot or Kettle?

I support traditional marriage — Wayfarer

Same. — Agustino

Me too (from page 20).

Your "traditions" are actually progressive. How dare you redefine marriage as being between a man and a woman only?!

Well I knew that progressives are actually reactionaries wanting to go back to our days as savages, only that I didn't want to say it ;)

Savages? What have they got to do with it?

Savages? What have they got to do with it? — Michael

Are you purposefully playing dumb? :P

I went to page 20 and saw talk about the practices, rituals and traditions of savages there.

>:O Yes, just like Clinton will win by 4-5% points X-) — Agustino

Yeah, she only won by two (and I got her percentage on the nose, incidentally). Donald got about 2 more than I bargained for (a gift from the FBI), which made the difference. So, I was out by a cumulative two points, which was always going to be either nothing or everything in the end. At least I stuck my neck out and made a specific prediction. Anyway, this is happening before your eyes. If you're incapable of being embarrassed by it, so much the worse for you. Judging by Trump's favourability ratings, most Americans aren't.



Is there much more you can do with a chimpanzee that's rampaging through your house than throw him some bananas and hope he eventually gets bored? I don't know. What kind of resistance do you suggest?

I went to page 20 and saw talk about the practices, rituals and traditions of savages there. — Agustino

The word "savage" doesn't appear in there at all.

Progressives hardly need resist the Trump clown show. It's doing a better job of destroying itself than any of its opponents could. Sometimes the only way to teach a baby not to eat its own shit is to let it try some and see what it tastes like. — Baden

Well before the first primary, the pundits were laughing at the Trump clown show, certain it would fade away and die, and now he's the President. Nope, he's not going away, and all the gaffes that everyone loves to point out have no impact on him. He's the energizer bunny and the liberal ridicule fuels him even more.

Yes, the most powerful country in the world is now being run by a frantic rodent, and there's no point trying to stop him - which was kind of my point.

Obama demonstrated his menace by saving the auto industry, introducing affordable health care, attempting to disentangle America from the consequences of his predecessor's reckless war-mongering, and presiding over a modest but real recovery from the most dire economic emergency since the Great Depression. — Wayfarer

Bush gave Chrysler and GM 17.6 billion in TARP money. I'd say that saved them as much an anything, nothwithstanding the fact that Ford received no assistance. So why you offer all this Obama I'm not sure, but anyway, Trump is very strongly pro-American manufacturing, so you should be able to get aboard that.

Obamacare is not at all affordable. I'm not sure where you've been living, but the middle class has seen their costs for healthcare skyrocket. Even Hillary admitted Obamacare needed to be repaired. It's not at all doing what it intended to do: make healthcare affordable. What it did was make it theoretically available for those previously excluded for pre-existing conditions, but it hardly matters if someone qualifies but still can't afford it.

Nobel Peace Prize laureate Obama invaded 3 new countries under his regime: Yemen, Libya, and Syria.

Obama can be given no more credit than Bush (who initiated TARP) and the Fed and I'm sure all sorts of other entities for the recovery.

In terms of what Trump has done, well, it's not been a month yet, so it's hard to know.

My understanding was that Obama-care was a first step in dealing with the fact that Medicare funding is inadequate, so it was forced by circumstances, not socialist principles.

And yes, people were saying Obama was the Antichrist. Here's the difference: at the time, I would have assumed that a rational person would realize that Obama isn't really the Antichrist. And now I would assume that a rational person would understand why, for instance, women object to Trump.

Throw me a bone, here, Hanover. You're a fairly rational person.

Nobel Peace Prize laureate Obama invaded 3 new countries under his regime: Yemen, Libya, and Syria. — Hanover

Don't forget Pakistan. At least, I don't think Bush had already extended military action into Pakistan.

My understanding was that Obama-care was a first step in dealing with the fact that Medicare funding is inadequate, so it was forced by circumstances, not socialist principles. — Mongrel

There are those who argued that Obamacare was passed under the expectation of failure so that when it did fail, it would force a more comprehensive public healthcare plan to then pass. The failure part did come to pass, but the problem is that a Republican won the presidency and he's more interested in scrapping it than in fixing it (as Clinton wanted)

And now I would assume that a rational person would understand why, for instance, women object to Trump. — Mongrel

I really don't know there's any consistency with the liberal women's vote other than that they consistently vote liberally. There are plenty of misogynists and sexists on the left who were given a pass (Bill Clinton, the Kennedys, Weiner).

Throw me a bone, here, Hanover. You're a fairly rational person. — Mongrel

I really do agree with you that Trump is a buffoon. I don't see him as any more or less dangerous than any other candidate for President though. From my perspective, it's all entertaining theater. At the end of 4 years, I'll stand up, brush the popcorn off my lap, and go watch the next show.

Don't forget Pakistan — Benkei

Right. Obama actually dropped SEALS into a sovereign nation to arrest a criminal. I'm not sure how the US would have reacted if Pakistan dropped soldiers in an American city in the name of Pakistan national security.

I really do agree with you that Trump is a buffoon. I don't see him as any more or less dangerous than any other candidate for President though. From my perspective, it's all entertaining theater. At the end of 4 years, I'll stand up, brush the popcorn off my lap, and go watch the next show. — Hanover

I agree with that. The fact that he named his inauguration day a national day of patriotism kind of makes me feel like I slipped into an alternate reality, but I don't think the US is about to turn into Nazi Germany. Not that I don't think it could.. of course it could.

US President Donald Trump was aware that his national security adviser Michael Flynn had misled White House officials and Vice President Mike Pence for "weeks" before he was forced to resign on Monday night.

Recall the hysteria at the Republican National Convention over 'lying Hillary's' email server and the masses screaming 'Lock Her Up!' Recall Trump saying that when he gained power he would see to it she was jailed on account of it.

I don't know whether it's the hypocrisy, the mendacity, or the negligence that smells worst, but overall, there's a stench.

What puzzles me is why the left can't appreciate that the right felt just as strongly that Obama posed a threat to America as the left now feels Trump poses. — Hanover

Is it the right who felt this way, or is it the white supremacists who felt this way?

Who do you think will stand against Trump, it can't be too early to speculate since they will start running in earnest in 2 more years (sooner if we get lucky) and the Dems will sure to need as much lead time as possible.

I cannot see Elizabeth Warren, she is too polarizing. Biden, but I doubt it. Michelle Obama would be a great choice but the same thing that happened to Hillary would happen to her, and I think she is too smart to run. Kaine? no. Nancy Pelosi is perhaps the most effective vocal critic of Trump right now, but she is like 75 years old. Chuck Schumer nah, too NY. (Kanye of course a long shot, but long shots come in :-d , which tends to upset everyone. He's got too much Chi-town flow)

I think someone who is or was a governor would be a good contender for the Dems. Jerry Brown, unfortunately is too old. Kaine? no, I was not impressed by his VP run. So how about Gov John Hickenlooper of Colorado...he would get my vote, but he maybe perceived as too liberal, unless Trumpster really fucks up, in which case my guess, the conservatives will hibernate in 2020.

The approach of calling the right racists has been effective in eliminating the left. Keep up the good work.

Who do you think will stand against Trump — Cavacava

I think it is too early to worry about that, because...

1) The mid-term elections are less than 2 years away, and the democrats need to worry about those. This is state level work, mostly, but the next 5 congressional elections will determine more about the future than the next presidential election (or it won't).

2) There are no obvious candidates today. Everybody you listed you thought was too old, too polarizing, or too liberal. I don't think Elizabeth Warren is too polarizing, and Michele Obama should definitely never run. (I'm opposed to multiples of Bushes, Clintons, and Obamas running for president.)

3) ONE person will rise to the top on the basis of their money, their personal charm, their dominance of the party, their ability to organize their multi-million-person constituency, and even a few good ideas, if they happen to have any, which they may not. It will probably be clear by 01-1-2019 who that person is--for both parties.

That said, there are certain things the party and the prospective candidate should and should not be:

They should not be focused on any of the issues belonging "the culture wars"; racial or gender equity in the professions--all the usual stuff Democrats talk about. They can afford to not put this stuff front and center. Instead they should be focused on the economic reality which 50% to 60% (give or take a decile) live with: Stagnant wages, a declining standard of living, insecurity in employment, no likelihood of a remotely satisfactory retirement from work, declining ability to obtain adequate health care, increasing debt, and so on. These economic and work-life issues supersede race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and such, as well as transgender bathrooms, gay marriage, the glass ceiling in the executive suites, welcoming and celebrating immigrants, and so on.

Focus on the economy that the vast majority of people live and die in, not the economy of the upper middle class, lower upper class, and the rich--on up to the handful of persons who control 50% of the world's wealth.

As a Clinton once said, "It's the economy, stupid."

Lock him up!

The ongoing story about 'Russian interference', Trump's aids hobnobbing with Russian intelligence before the Election, Trump refusing to condemn Putin for assissinating journalists - I am cautiously optimistic that this will do him in, and soon.
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Stagnant wages, a declining standard of living, insecurity in employment, no likelihood of a remotely satisfactory retirement from work, declining ability to obtain adequate health care, increasing debt, and so on. These economic and work-life issues supersede race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and such, as well as transgender bathrooms, gay marriage, the glass ceiling in the executive suites, welcoming and celebrating immigrants, and so on. — Bitter Crank

With you 100% - same issues here in Oz.

I'm not calling the right racist. Quite the contrary actually, I'm trying to separate the right from the racists. So I'm asking, is it the right which felt their America was threatened by Obama as president, or was it the racists who felt this? I know some right leaning Americans, and some whom I know voted for Trump, and I don't recall that they ever claimed to have felt that their America was threatened by Obama. But they're not racist though. Those whom you say felt that Obama was a threat to their America, are they racist?

I think the time is well past due that self-respecting Republicans admit that nominating Trump was a horrible mistake and that he needs to be impeached straight away. Pence might be a dullard machine politician, but at least he's a politician.

Trump is great...

Obama's ideology leans socialist, which is less individualistic, less self reliant, and less religious. He also is very uncomfortable with the idea of American exceptionalism, that America is superior to Western Europe by virtue of its Constitution and values and its duty to protect the world from all evil. The left is generally uncomfortable with patriotism, flag saluting, and overt celebrations of national pride.

That is the America the right feels was abandoned by Obama. Your questioning this might have to do with Obama's race was such a non sequitur that I just took it as a standard liberal ad hom diversion.

He also is very uncomfortable with the idea of American exceptionalism, that America is superior to Western Europe by virtue of its Constitution and values and its duty to protect the world from all evil. The left is generally uncomfortable with patriotism, flag saluting, and overt celebrations of national pride.

That is the America the right feels was abandoned by Obama. — Hanover

Isn't it ironic then that Trump is uncomfortable (and more vocally so) with American exceptionalism, too?

Isn't it ironic then that Trump is uncomfortable (and more vocally so) with American exceptionalism, too? — Michael

Trump is a strong mix between both parties and that is what I think is so confusing. He took pages from both the Republican playbook and pages from the Democrat playbook and THAT is what I think makes the Democrats so uneasy. Because he is such a 'mixer', politicians don't get what makes him up but the common man has seen it, voted for it and are expecting those campaign promises to be fulfilled to the best of his ability.

Politico National Tracking poll 2/15-2/17
http://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000015a-418d-d693-abda-e7cdd76e0000
Note Pocahontas.