• Athena
    2.9k
    None of those are unanswerable. The question of whether god exists is answered, its just people who believe in god and certain types of fence sitters still carry on regardless, attached for whatever reason to the indefensible believer position.
    Free will is a bit trickier I’ll grant you but I feel like its mostly a problem of definition of free will. If its defined as something outside deterministic forces, cause and effect but if the definition isnt magical and accounts for deterministic forces then sure, free will exists. As Hitchens used to say, we have free will becuase we have no choice
    Lastly, life after death. Like god, this has been asked and answered. No, we have no good reasons to think there is life after death.
    There is certainly things beyond human understanding, but none of the things you mentioned are. All understandable, all have fairly clear answers. Whether or not those answers can overcome indoctrinated belief or strong emotional bias is another matter.
    DingoJones

    What matters to me is what my children and their children and their children's children will experience. Socrates gave his life for a future better than the reality of his day. For me, there is no higher purpose.
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    B F Skinner thought that consciousness was illusory but if that was true how do we make sense of conscious awareness. What does appear to be more potentially accurate is the Buddhist idea that there is no self, because it does appear to be more of a construct of fleeting consciousness rather than as an actual entity in it's own right. The 'I' of awareness remains but as Ken Wilber, argued more as a witness.

    As for the idea that there is no God, no life after death and no free will, it is possible to come up to that conclusion, but, on the other hand, it does not mean that we may never consider other possibilities. While the lack of clear evidence can be seen as perplexing, it does give scope for imaginative possibilities.
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    I would imagine that the big questions must be becoming increasingly difficult for children, with so much information available, especially on the internet. There is just so much, and I would imagine that parents, who are probably struggling to find beliefs, must have such a hard time showing their children through the maze. I am not sure whether some clear beliefs or the best option. I am sure that it varies so much.
  • Manuel
    3.9k
    When talking about Newton's great achievements, Hume observed that:

    "In Newton this island may boast of having produced the greatest and rarest genius that ever arose for the ornament and instruction of the species. Cautious in admitting no principles but such as were founded on experiment; but resolute to adopt every such principle, however new or unusual: From modesty, ignorant of his superiority above the rest of mankind; and thence, less careful to accommodate his reasonings to common apprehensions: More anxious to merit than acquire fame: He was from these causes long unknown to the world; but his reputation at last broke out with a lustre, which scarcely any writer, during his own lifetime, had ever before attained.

    While Newton seemed to draw off the veil from some of the mysteries of nature, he shewed at the same time the imperfections of the mechanical philosophy; and thereby restored her ultimate secrets to that obscurity, in which they ever did and ever will remain."

    [Italics mine]

    So, who knows?
  • Athena
    2.9k
    It seems, on reflection, what I was attempting wasn't to provide a actual proofs for god, free will, and life after death. What I aimed to do though was suggest some avenues of inquiry and offer plausible reasons as to why some of us are of the view that god, free will, and life after death exist. My intention was not so much to come up with good arguments as it was to explore, examine the conspicuous absence of such in these domains of metaphysics.TheMadFool

    We do not directly experience "God" so we can not know God. We can know the manifestation of God, Tao, logos because we experience that. We can know something of the past and the future, and in that way, we are like the gods, and with that comes responsibility for our words and deeds. We are a part of something much bigger than ourselves, and only with knowledge and wisdom can we have good judgment.

    I think a common human problem is not recognizing we are part of something bigger than ourselves. On one level we are part of a family. We might be members of a church or some other organization. We are part of a community and then a nation and then the whole of humanity and the earth with all its creatures large and small. What matters is how I impact the larger whole and future generations. My ego really does not matter. My special place in a heaven does not matter. I am part of something much larger. :pray:
  • Athena
    2.9k
    I would imagine that the big questions must be becoming increasingly difficult for children, with so much information available, especially on the internet. There is just so much, and I would imagine that parents, who are probably struggling to find beliefs, must have such a hard time showing their children through the maze. I am not sure whether some clear beliefs or the best option. I am sure that it varies so much.Jack Cummins

    Parents do not have the power of social pressure. This is unfortunate when society is becoming amoral and immoral, and everyone is ruled by their feelings, not principles. On the other hand, it is very fortunate when the parents themselves are immoral people, and children chose social values instead of the way of the parents.

    The rules for life are not that complicated. It is not difficult for grade schools to teach a set of principles, traditions, and customs that hold civilization together. I think we have gone a little overboard with education for technology and took our civilizations for granted. We need to return to education that advances civilization not just the power of computers and weapons.
  • 3017amen
    3.1k
    There are several mysteries which seem essential to the philosophical quest; the existence of God, free will and, life after death. These seem to be central to philosophy. Endless books have been written on these subjectsJack Cummins

    Jack!

    Indeed, the EOG axiom encompasses well over 75% of all philosophical domains (ethics, metaphysics, ontology, epistemology, post-modernism, etc.) for sure. However, it is usually in the cosmological sense, or used as a standard archetype, but not quite as much used in a personal way. God exists though in a humanistic way through the history books, just like any other human accounting as described in history. Accordingly, the historical narrative of Jesus existed, and that person who also had a consciousness, was just as mysterious as consciousness itself.

    In this same way, the Christian God existed, and still exists through the phenomena of our consciousness...which contributes to the appeal toward Christianity as a cosmological agent being relatable to all people (human beings). As such, Jesus was known mostly for his thoughts/actions associated with the mystery of Love.
  • synthesis
    933
    Are they unfathomable mysteries, beyond human understanding?Jack Cummins

    Everything is beyond human understanding because if you understood one thing, you would would understand everything, and if you understood everything, you would immediately go insane.
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    I think what you are saying is essentially true and often gets missed in some circles of philosophical discussion. Personally, I was brought up as a Catholic However, I experienced some narrow forms of Christian ideas . These were ones which were very literalistic and contrary to any kind of genuine exploration, or certainly that was how I felt. However, it is true to say that sometimes philosophy can swing to the opposite direction, in a forceful way. It is easy to end up partaking discussion about the existence of God and end up thinking of some abstract search and lose sight of Jesus, and the whole message of love.
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    I am not convinced of the logic that to understand one thing would result in knowing everything. If only.. I also think that it is just as easy to go insane from lack of knowledge rather than too much of it. We probably have so much information to process, but that is completely different from understanding.
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    I agree with what you wrote about needing to feel part of something much larger, and perhaps this is what gets lost when we spend so much time logged onto digital devices. I was even reading today that it may contribute to 'brain fog', and I wonder about this. I don't think that we are designed to spend most of our time on computers and mobile phones.
  • 3017amen
    3.1k


    Precisely! I was too, and subsequently uncovered the dangerous dogmatic and political group think that unfortunately tends to give [a] God (Jesus) a bad name. I always say, religion gives God a bad name :mask:

    I predict fundamentalism itself will give way to spiritualism. We are too sophisticated for the worn-out dogmatic brainwashing as found in those kinds of religions. Positive reinforcement, not negative reinforcement, holier than thou judgement, extremism, ad nauseum.

    It is easy to end up partaking discussion about the existence of God and end up thinking of some abstract search and lose sight of Jesus, and the whole message of love.Jack Cummins

    Well said!
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    I came from a Catholic background which was quite liberal but left many questions unexplained. I explored these, but have come across people who became unwell mentally as a result of certain contradictions. I have a few friends who developed psychotic delusions of a religious nature. I think that philosophy helped me to disentangle knots in my thinking. However, unfortunately some people can be just as dogmatic in philosophical argument as the ones who are dogmatic in fundamentalist religion.
  • synthesis
    933
    I am not convinced of the logic that to understand one thing would result in knowing everything. If only.. I also think that it is just as easy to go insane from lack of knowledge rather than too much of it. We probably have so much information to process, but that is completely different from understanding.Jack Cummins

    The complexity of understanding is so vast that to be able to understand one thing, you would be able to understand all things. For example...

    The simplest of things has been brought into being by an infinite number of events preceding, so in order to understand this particular thing, you would have to understand the infinite number of things that brought it into being and on top of that, understand the infinite number of things that brought the each of the infinite number of those things into being, so on and so forth. This is just for the simplest of things.

    Understanding, that "thing" that man wants more than anything else, is so far far beyond our capacity that it is literally incalculable. Of course, the silver lining is that understanding is not necessary (nor even preferable, in my view).

    If we did understand what was going on (literally), what would be the point in living?
  • Athena
    2.9k
    I agree with what you wrote about needing to feel part of something much larger, and perhaps this is what gets lost when we spend so much time logged onto digital devices. I was even reading today that it may contribute to 'brain fog', and I wonder about this. I don't think that we are designed to spend most of our time on computers and mobile phones.Jack Cummins

    But the Internet is vital to our evolution. It is not something we should curse but a manifestation of intelligence far beyond anything humanity has ever experienced before.

    :lol: Oh my, this is a little complex. If we believe we are part of something much bigger than ourselves, we can see the internet as kind of a voice of God. It is a man-made miracle where all minds can meet. This of course is overwhelming. Somehow we need to become comfortable with "I do not know" and then making judgments about what serves us well and what does not. This pushes our mental limits and I don't know how well we will succeed, but we need to be inclusive of all of humanity and the all the needs of our planet and different life forms. We are as the gods, now how are we going to manage this?
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    I know that you say that understanding 'is beyond our capacity' and, of course, there are limits but without a certain amount, surely, we would be completely lost. It may be that we strive for too much knowledge, but thinking is central to the human condition. Perhaps we need a certain amount of insight rather than just endless information. I know that I sometimes read and think too much. That is probably where meditation comes in.
  • 3017amen
    3.1k
    However, unfortunately some people can be just as dogmatic in philosophical argument as the ones who are dogmatic in fundamentalist religion.Jack Cummins

    Once again, well said. I think in large part, it's called the 'sin of pride' (AKA ego). Which is, exaggerated self worth.

    Anyway, I think we solved that problem....NOT!
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    I am grateful for the internet. I have found discussion on this site so helpful during lockdown. My mother got really annoyed with me when I kept sitting writing answers over Easter. A few months ago, I flooded her bathroom when I was writing a comment, because I left a tap on. The water cascaded through the ceiling and made the light go out downstairs.

    As for the idea of God permeating the internet, I first came across the idea from one of my friends who was having a psychotic episode. I remember him crouched down banging his head on the floor, stating. 'God is a computer', and it struck me as an interesting idea. Computers are currently at the heart of the network of communication for us.
  • synthesis
    933
    I know that you say that understanding 'is beyond our capacity' and, of course, there are limits but without a certain amount, surely, we would be completely lost.Jack Cummins

    I think "completely lost" is not a bad descriptor for the state of our species.

    Our understanding is no better than it has ever been. It's just more complex (which is an indication that it is further from the truth).

    Thinking is just a system that has to make sense in order for people to buy-in. So, all the parts of the system...mathematics, science, philosophy, literature, etc., do their part to hold-up each other allowing people function socially in this world no different than folks in the past who had their systems, as well.

    Although we have a good laugh when we think about how silly our ancestors were in believing all of their non-sense, we take our own system as "The Word Of God," and forget that not so long in the future, our descendants will be laughing at us and our system, as well.
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    Yes, I think that too many people have inflated egos, and this probably extends to people with a whole variety of beliefs and ideas.
  • 3017amen
    3.1k
    I think that too many people have inflated egos, and this probably extends to people with a whole variety of beliefs and ideasJack Cummins

    Quite remarkable, universal, and problematic... . Your forgoing can significantly increase one's own sense of existential angst.

    Often times, one reaps what one sows. Nothing new under the sun there!
  • Heracloitus
    487
    Our understanding is no better than it has ever been. It's just more complex (which is an indication that it is further from the truth).synthesis

    Only if you assert that truth is simple.
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k

    It sometimes seems that people in our time act as if we are fortunate to be able to understand so fully, but it is hard to know what knowledge is yet to be uncovered. It is hard to predict, but who knows, what big omissions and gross errors will be found. Perhaps new paradigms of knowledge and science are yet to be discovered, rather just the filling in of detail.
  • synthesis
    933
    Absolute Simplicity is Absolute Truth.
  • Jack Cummins
    5.1k


    I think that we all face the tension between lack of knowledge or an assumption of knowing so much. Perhaps, the more inflated any of us become, in our sense of possessing great truth and knowiedge, is partly due to the fear of this collapsing and of realising our ignorance. So, it is probably about finding a careful balance.
  • Heracloitus
    487
    Absolute simplicity is nothing. A truth which cannot be known.
  • synthesis
    933
    Although it is not nothing, you are correct that it cannot be known.
  • Heracloitus
    487
    But it can be experienced right? Are you a non dualist?
  • synthesis
    933
    It sometimes seems that people in our time act as if we are fortunate to be able to understand so fully, but it is hard to know what knowledge is yet to be uncovered.Jack Cummins

    Part of buying into the system is feeling as you do, like the system is mostly correct (with a little fine-tuning needed going forward). Otherwise, people would be quite insecure believing that the floor upon which they stand is nothing but thin air.
  • synthesis
    933
    Correct. Yes, I am a Zen student.
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