Not to trivialise many people's seriously deluded thought patterns.

Just to question, e.g.

Cognitive error (misattribution of ‘internal speech’) — hearing-voices.org

... if the latter would lead people towards an unnecessary diagnosis.

Yeah that's a bit unnecessary.

One aspect which I wonder about is whether inner speech is likely to translate into 'psychosis' if the person has little opportunity for dialogue with others. What I am saying is mere speculation, but based on my observation that a tendency towards withdrawal from social life, often precedes episodes of psychotic illness. It could even be like people being shut in darkened rooms beginning to see visual hallucinations.

However, there is also the whole social construction of mental illness, with the potential for people who perceive and think outside the norms being labelled as 'ill' and even outlawed. The creative bohemian outsiders may be misunderstood by many.

If you say so.

Romme worked with a particular woman, Patsy Hage, a voice hearer, who contributed to Romme's writing. The writer of the article summarises how Patsy Hage,
'found it remarkable how similar the gods were to the voices she heard. They dispensed threats and orders, they bullied and mocked, they provided comfort and advice. The gods were always obeyed, just as she and other voice-hearers often obeyed their voices, finding it hard to know where the voices ended and their true selves began. "We voice-hearers are probably living in the wrong era," she concluded.

Apart from the article, I think another area relevant to your discussion is the way in which hallucinogenics can trigger voices. When I experimented on cannabis biscuits and Lsd at a warehouse rave, I experience voices. I was worrying about all the work I had to do on the course I was doing and I began hearing voices, telling me, ' Its a very life' repeatedly and, also, when I kept hearing voices saying, 'He's eaten skunk cake'. I was not sure if the voices were probably in my head or external, because
boundaries seemed unclear. Perhaps, hallucinogenics trigger a throwback to a bicameral mental state. — Jack Cummins

Fact, most of today's psychological "disorders" may be mere remnants of how the structuring of the mind, and consequently, of human perception of reality, was in the past.

This relationship to the normality of the "introspectivity" of the contemporary mind could be very well conceived by the Sumerians as high levels, even if they were unable to explain it by the limitation of the language of the time, of anxiety. Indeed, current interactions, together with their brain and psychological conceptions, would categorize a person as "insane" even in the 1950s, so imagine the shock of reality that a contemporary person would have in talking to a person who lived more than 5,000 years ago, and vice versa.

It is obvious from the study of the history and philosophy of the mind, along with the psycho-archaeological studies that the human consciousness is not of the same "substance" with the passing of millennia. Why this occurs is the question to be debated - in my view and in Jaynes's view -, since, if consciousness is something organic and that adapts itself according to the context of the individual in question, how does this occur?

Psychology and philosophy of mind have reached such a high level of arrogance, that they remain chained to theories and hypotheses that were developed more than 100 years ago, along with a prejudice towards visions that do not follow the norm already pre-established in the academy.

What if, at some points, the same great minds that established the fundamental foundations of contemporary thought were wrong? One must question oneself.

And when I read your post I "imagine your voice", or so shiver my brain as to invite that modern rationalisation. Any rationalising is potentially disturbing. I can easily "hear" a chorus of competing drafts (more or less deranged) of each new sub-vocal thought. The more vivid the more deprived of sleep, I have to say. — bongo fury

What if, the perception of this "voice" as being "yours" was not conceived by the ancients due to their moral, cultural and social limitations, along with the intrinsic foundation of their society's on mythology?

It is no coincidence that there are so many records from the Bronze Age where people describe "conscious" conversations between themselves and the Gods. There was no mortal perception without the grace - in this case, command - aka voices - - of the divine.

It is interesting to wonder to what extent current thinking about mind and other aspects of philosophy is the ultimate one. It may be that there is a lot of arrogance about claims to understanding, and this may be perceived in retrospect ,if humanity survives long enough.

Personally, I find the philosophy of mind to be one of the most interesting areas. I think that there are so many unanswered questions about consciousness. I have worked in mental health care but don't know if I wish to do so in the future, as the medical model seems so limited. Even the nursing model seems so restricted to the bottom layers of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, rather than creative pursuits and self actualization.

Considering the questions of this thread as a whole, I was wondering about how here is the USA we medicate people forcibly if they are acting outside social norms and say that they hear voices. Perhaps the sole criteria of whether they are normal or not is whether they contribute to society. What do you think?

Considering the questions of this thread as a whole, I was wondering about how here is the USA we medicate people forcibly if they are acting outside social norms and say that they hear voices. — Gregory

And yet we all hear God blessing America. It's the godblessest place in the universe.

Diagnosis of mental illness is complex and I do think that there is a danger of it becoming a form of social control. For example, black people are more likely to be diagnosed as paranoid and this has been evident in research. Also, women are more likely to be diagnosed as having borderline personality disorder whereas men as having antisocial personality disorder.

As far as people being said to hear voices, I think that there is a danger of people being misinterpreted. I knew someone who used to speak out loud to himself and had difficulty explaining this, because he maintained that he was merely ventilating his thoughts externally, not hearing voices. Aside from voices, the whole area of delusions is subject to social interpretation.

When I worked in acute psychiatry, patients used to be held down and restrained. Of course, in many situations this was because the people were becoming aggressive. However, they were often restrained if they were refusing medication. I found this whole aspect of control and restraint of people to be extremely difficult. That is the main reason why if I work in mental health in the future, I don't wish to work in acute psychiatry settings.

One rather unfortunate aspect of psychiatry is the whole stereotype of people with mental health problems being seen as potentially violent. Of course, some people do become aggressive in response to their distress. However, it is unfortunate that the media often focus upon this, while many individuals who hear voices, or who are diagnosed as psychotic, are not violent or aggressive at all.

One of the differences between the modern age and the classical Greek-Roman age is that in the bad old days, they thought that the good old days were in the past. the golden age had passed and the present was degenerate. Now we are much smarter, and know that we are about to usher in the golden age. Such is progress; or as the ancients called it, hubris.

It comes down to usefulness to society in the States. We don't like people hanging around their whole life. If they can't work that's one thing, but if they just don't want to be productive in some when then ye we hate them

You goddam commies! :rofl: