Again, I don't know the math or science, — csalisbury

Nobody does. Weinstein won't publish. When the OP started this thread I Googled and read about 10 articles on Weinstein's geometric unity project, and still had no idea what it was. So I didn't bother to reply. That's the thing. He refuses to publish a paper. He gives talks and does podcasts. I've watched several of his podcasts. He never says anything you can grab onto. If he has a theory he's not telling anyone what it is.

The only thing I've learned about any of this is that Eric Weinstein has this supposed idea of geometric unity, but he won't tell anyone what it is. His brother is Brett Weinstein, who is the guy who refused to leave Evergreen State College for a "day without white people" and got #cancelled. And neither of them are Eric Weisstein, author of Wolfram MathWorld. Before this I had them all confused in my mind. Like Naomi Klein and Naomi Wolf.

Assuming is not a good thing. — Athena

I agree with pretty much everything you say; and even with some of the same passion.

I'm not sure why you directed this at me, but I'll take the liberty of using your excellent post to add some of my own thoughts; as I say, mostly in complete agreement.

How about our trouble with Iran begins during the Eisenhower administration because he used the CIA to create a rebellion in Iran that took out the democratically elected leader and put in his place a tyrant because the US wanted to be sure it had control of Iran and not the USSR. — Athena

I am well acquainted with the CIA's deposing of Mohammad Mosaddegh and the installation of the hated Shah. I saw a documentary on tv once. Mosseddegh spoke for the rights of the people of Iran to control their own resources and their own destiny. Clearly he had to go. Leading to the people overthrowing the Shah and leading to the Mullahs and Jimmy Carter's hostage crisis and all the rest right up to today. Perfectly well aware. I hope I've made it clear that I'm a very longtime critic of US foreign policy and fan of Chomsky.

That was a disaster as we brought in our troops making matters worse until the Iranians rebelled again and threw us out. I would be glad to go on about the wrongs done by our military-industrial complex, and how screwed the taxpayer is and how completely powerless we are if that is what people want to discuss. But that conversation would only be pathetic venting and do absolutely nothing to make things better. I am so angry about the perversion of our democracy and the place to make a difference is education. — Athena

Yes. I agree totally. And one of my great frustrations is that the warfare state, as some libertarian blogs might call it, is deeply bipartisan. Joe Biden represents the warfare state. Trump, by the way, ran in opposition to it; and to date has not started any new wars and has kept John Bolton from starting one with Iran. Just to toss in a little politics.

Had we been paying the real price of oil from the 1950's until fracking, our gasoline would have cost at least as much as the Brits were paying for gasoline and many of us could not have afforded it because the real cost of oil is the military expense of controlling it and that went sky high during the Reagan administration when we took control of the Persian Gulf and granted arms to people like Sadam. — Athena

Yes. Agreed totally. Oil. "The Great Game" as they called it in the 1890s, when the movers and shakers and spies of the world realized that oil was the key to the twentieth century.

I will confess, though, that I've always enjoyed driving and that I am going to drive my gas-guzzling automobile till the last drop of fuel is extracted from the last pollution-spewing refinery in the world. So there's that.

Bin Laden did not attack the people of the US. He attacked the military-industrial complex and we should have thanked him and taken advantage of this moment to take power away from the military-industrial complex — Athena

That made me laugh. I'm as naive as you, I wish such a think were imaginable. I do not think Americans were quite in the mood to go, "Wow, you know, this is a good opportunity to throw out the military-industrial complex and the big predatory banks and start over." Nah, that wasn't gonna happen. Instead lust for vengeance, invade a couple of countries while not ever having a proper forensic and criminal investigation of the perpetrators. You know the fix was in from day one, right? I was there. I'm not saying the underlying events were anything other than what the 9/11 Commission says they were -- but from that moment onward, everything was a psy-op to whip up the country to march off to the list of wars specified in the PNAC document.

So Bush and the neocons. Bad people, right? But what of the Dems? Hillary, and DiFi, and Biden, and all the other so-called "liberals" who always seem to be on the yes side of every war. That's the thing. The endless warfare state is bipartisan. Mainstream GOPs -- which Trump crushed -- and the Dems. The entire GOP/Dem alliance wants war and Trump ran against the wars. People should try to remember that.

but really is that our biggist problem compared to global warming and doing to our water supply what we have done to our oil supply, and ----- — Athena

I'm afraid I'm not big on global warming one way or another. I like an open road and a tank full of fossil fuel. Tail fins. That's when America was great!

Does anyone remember when we thought our constitution prevented the federal government from controlling public education? — Athena

Yes, I read the paleo-libertarian blogs. And there's a lot to be said for the point of view. Have you seen the condition of public education? The kids can't read, write, or think.

Do you happen to know which demographic is the most in favor of school vouchers so that parents can send their kids to independent private schools? African-Americans. That's right. They know their kids are being set up for a lifetime of failure in the public schools and they want to be able to get GOOD educations for their kids. I think the federal government has done a terrible job with the public schools.

How about remembering when the government could not track us through education, banking, and medical care and now our cell phones? — Athena

Yes, I read the cosmo-libertarian blogs too. I oppose the surveillance state. I oppose greatly the social credit score system being implemented by China, and coming here soon unless people wake up.

What do you think of having to have a government-approved ID to ride public transportation? — Athena

I oppose a national ID and I definitely oppose having to show any kind of ID to ride public transportation. How'd we end up talking about this? I'm a libertarian, but some people think that has a bad connotation, so I call myself an independent centrist with libertarian leanings, if that helps to categorize me. I totally oppose any restrictions on anyone doing anything that doesn't infringe on others rights. You want to get on the bus, get on the bus.

Why do you ask?

And that wall we are building with taxpayer money walls us in and well as walling others out. — Athena

I sometimes defend actions and positions taken by Trump; and overall, I support Trump for reelection. I am hardly blind to his many faults, and I don't agree with some or even many of his positions. On the wall, I oppose Trump with all my might. I happen to have a high interest in US-Mexican relations. The wall is bad optics, it's disrespectful, it's provocative, and most of all, it's ineffective. Wouldn't stop drugs, wouldn't stop the flow of people, wouldn't stop anything. Just make more human misery and insult Mexico, which is our friend, neighbor, and third largest trading partner.

On the other hand, let it be noted that Obama deported more Mexicans than Bush or Clinton and even Trump did; and that it was Obama who built the cages and put kids in them. Remember: The screwed up government is bipartisan. Very important point.

No more fleeing to Canada to avoid the draft p/quote]

I was in that demographic at the time and seriously considered that option.
— Athena

and the No Child Left Behind bill mandates schools to give military recruiters students names and addresses. — Athena

At the time of its passing I heard it referred to as No Lobbyist Left Behind. Pork-laden politicized bill I gather.

Bring it on, dump your anger here, — Athena

Me personally? Did I miss something? Hope you'll clarify.

then maybe people will start taking discussion of education seriously. — Athena

People who take education seriously advocate for school vouchers and basically demolishing the publi schools and the teachers unions that have destroyed them.

This is supposed to be a philosophy forum and this thread is about the military-industrial complex and culture change. I didn't think this forum got political. — Athena

Oh ok well you're right. Same thing happened to me, I was trying to be analytical and objective in one of the Trump threads and got attacked for this and that, and decided that anything political here is basically like arguing on Craigslist or Facebook.

But I think there's nothing wrong using examples ripped from the headlines to illustrate larger points.

As far as the mil-ind complex, I am 100% with you and the passionate and eloquent words you wrote.

We were known around the world as a nation that stood against war. — Athena

Yes. And I guess you'd call this getting political, but as an old anti-war type from the 60's and 70's, I'm shocked and appalled at the way the Democrats and even the left have suddenly gone all-in on the wars and the intelligence agencies and the generals as long as they think they'll get Trump.

And yes it started the moment Hillary voted for the Iraq war. At that moment the mainstream Dems had to take a side; and they sided with the warmongers. And now 20 years later we're at war in seven or so Middle East and North African countries and Pelosi and the Dems keep funding. Did you know that a resolution to end the Afghanistan war was voted down a week or two ago? It's insane. The mainstream GOP and the mainstream Dems did this. Trump ran against the warmongers in 2016 and they will throw everything they've got at Trump to get control so they can have their wars again.

Hillary was the warmonger. Trump was the peacemaker.

Iran loved us because we helped them get rid of British control. Making America great again did not mean a military power controlled by neocons and paid for by taxpayers. — Athena

November 22, 1963 is the date that deal went down. And Trump is the first president since JFK to directly challenge the intelligence agencies. Make of that what you will.

And our education was based on the Enlightenment, — Athena

Haven't you heard? The wokesters and Antifa and BLM are opposed to enlightenment values. Free speech is "privilege." I assume you follow current events so that I don't have to cite chapter and verse here. Noam Chomsky's been #cancelled for advocating free speech.

not technology for military and industrial purpose which I have said is education for slaves and is destroying our democracy. — Athena

Right on. I agree. I just wish that I could explain better to people that everything you say is true; AND that Trump represents opposition to all those things; and Biden represents the restoration of the unholy neocon-neoliberal alliance that's led us to this point.

Well, thanks for such a stimulating post that got my typing fingers flowing. I'm sure I'll soon be in trouble for something I wrote.

@Kev, Our friend Noam signed a letter today opposing cancel culture and supporting free speech. JK Rowling and many others also signed.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/506314-jk-rowling-noam-chomsky-sign-letter-warning-of-restriction-of

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/j-k-rowling-among-dozens-to-call-for-end-to-cancel-culture/

Then what happened? Chomsky is getting #cancelled. Leftists are outraged that he or anyone else would dare speak out for free expression. That's how bad things are out there. For some reason I can't find a link to the story about his getting in trouble with the left. Whose champion he's only been for fifty years.

That's it. You say "Chomsky" to a leftist and they say, "Old white man who believes in free speech. On the list for the guillotine." When the leftists find their Robsepierre, none of us will be safe.

ps I did find a link, unfortunately it's from a very disreputable source, one that's helped lie the country into more than one war. I speak of course of the New York Times.

Artists and Writers Warn of an ‘Intolerant Climate.’ Reaction Is Swift

Down below we find:

And on social media, the reaction was swift, with some heaping ridicule on the letter’s signatories — who include cultural luminaries like Margaret Atwood, Bill T. Jones and Wynton Marsalis, along with journalists and academics — for thin-skinnedness, privilege and, as one person put it, fear of loss of “relevance.”

If you're for free speech, it's because you're a privileged old white guy. And if you're old you're irrelevant and your ideas are deemed wrong by definition. Noam Chomsky? He's for free speech. Cancel him.

These are dangerous times. People think awful stuff "couldn't happen here," but every bad thing that ever happened in the world happened in a place where the people thought it couldn't happen.

When he talks about religion, however, his views are just a rehash of Christian-Lebanese political tactics. — alcontali

Your perspective is interesting. I enjoy his books a lot and also his irreverent and "I'm smarter than everyone else" style. On learning that he has some religious beliefs that blend in with some politics that someone has an opinion on, my instinct is to not care. I allow people to have their personal beliefs independently of my enjoyment of their professional work. Not being particularly religious myself, I'm never surprised at the kind of things religious people believe. This could be take to extremes, of course. I wouldn't be an admirer of Hitler's watercolors. But I can and do enjoy the work of many people who have views I don't subscribe to and don't feel like investing the energy to learn about. Taleb's a math guy. A lot of math people have unpopular or odd political opinions. The mathematician and prolific textbook author Serge Lange was an HIV denier of some sort. The great physicist Werner Heisenberg worked on German's atomic bomb project. Should we be troubled by this whenever we think of his famous uncertainty principle? It's a good question. These days some people believe that the Betsy Ross flag (just to pick one example that comes to mind) is racist and should be #cancelled as they say. It's in the air.