Comments

  • Why are drugs so popular?
    Human beings in most cultures throughout history have used substances and had roles for mind altering experiences. We relish and build lives around exhilarating activities, risk taking, extreme sports, adrenalin inducing movies, etc, etc. Kids often go around in circles in order to spin out and fall over. We seem to be hard wired to try and mix things up with thrills, euphoria, elation and other similar sensations. Unless someone is on the spectrum, boredom and routine are often experienced as 'soul' destroying. Particularly when younger.Tom Storm

    Sure, but, how do you explain the negative image that the government presents of drug users, as you say? Most governments around the world and the United Nations have a negative view on drugs.

    To me, its interesting since, as you say, most cultures in human history have had some experiences with one mind altering or mood altering drug or the other.

    To put this more succinctly, if I want drugs and the government doesn't allow it, then what gives?
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    I took a break from this topic, only to ponder about the things other users have said. So, I'm sorry if I don't address your post individually; but, you may find some of the contents of this post edifying instead...

    I wanted to bring into the discussion the concept of homeostasis. Namely, that human beings tend to gravitate or naturally exist in a normalizing relationship with their natural tendencies to seek out homeostasis in their lives. Homeostasis is a state where a human being is in a stable state functioning. This state is commonly known as 'sobriety.'

    Now, it might seem perplexing that a person seeks out a high or mind alteration by the administration of already mentioned substances to one's homeostatic state. Based on what has been discussed already in this discussion, people want new experiences or better mood in their daily functioning. Sometimes a person will drink alcohol, a commonly known substance, to improve their mood or alter their mood or even suppress some mood. So, because having a mood is in response to our memories and environment, then do other members think that altering one's mood reflects something about how our nature is susceptible to a dysregulated state of homeostasis. If so, what are your thoughts about the matter?
  • Why are drugs so popular?


    Regarding which, do you know how many college students drop out by distracting themselves with drugs? Too many...
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    On the contrary all my formal education seemed designed to create the "ideal" conforming angst-ridden robot, that is all governments can cope with.unenlightened

    I can see the antipsychiatry sentiments here. Drugs have a purpose; but, not the ones you would prescribe.

    When paychologists and psychiatrists turn into modern day shamans, things usually go downhill.

    Witchdoctors and stuff.
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    To be amenable and flexible is part of sanity when it is a conscious choice, but when it becomes unconscious and rigid conformism, it is a madness of false identification and leads to horrors. Magas, Nazis, cultists, fanatics and zealots of all persuasions all suffer from the loss of reality in favour of ideology. This is sadly the mental condition of normality, that confers on the sufferer a complete confidence in their distorted thinking. Psychodelics in particular serve to break down the identification somewhat - with luck, the cracks that are made in the psycho-ceramic's everyday insane certainty will allow a glimpse of reality to reach the sufferer.unenlightened

    In my mind, what this means is that a good college education is of greater value for becoming open-minded and non-conformist. Then again, some people also take some drugs while at college. :victory:
  • Why are drugs so popular?


    For those with the blues, then the blues matter. :cool:
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    Drugs, seem like a distraction
    — Shawn
    So we agree on (this 'recreational' path of least effort) after all ...
    ... perhaps addictive intoxication (i.e. escape, distraction, self-anaesthetization) is the religion of the masses.
    — 180 Proof
    180 Proof

    Yes; mostly. But, to every person there is a unique identifier to be held about what or even why (which psychology addresses) some things are desired to be distracted from. Non-trivial to address.
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that drug-taking is an attempt to fulfill a "spiritual" need?180 Proof

    Yes. Instead of going to mass on Sundays, some people might prefer to smoke a joint or do whatever recreational stuff certain drugs have to offer.

    If so, what's this "spiritual need grasping for?180 Proof

    It seems like one of those existential questions, that only experiences endowed with significance and meaning can address.

    And why isn't "spiritual" fulfillment just another form of futile ego-gratification (like e.g. overconsumption, status-seeking, addictive intoxication, etc)?180 Proof

    I don't think it is futile. Seems to me to be more in line with hard to understand or attain. Not everyone can become a guru or saint.

    What this means in my opinion, is that people routinely fail at their own quest for purpose and edification in everyday living. Where this follows in my mind, is a life concerned with virtue and eudaimonia, which philosophy addresses the best. Drugs, seem like a distraction in this view.
  • Is communism an experiment?
    Do you think AI could and should plan your life?NOS4A2

    Regardless of any should's or oughts, AI is being utilized and (in the future) continue to be exploited to do so. Any should's or ought's, never stopped the rich and wealthy from becoming richer and more wealthy.
  • Why are drugs so popular?


    Thanks for the links. For quite a while I became interested in psychotronics, which the United States military was interested in for a while. The Army became interested in parascience and parapsychology for quite a while under the behest of the CIA, which did extensive studies into the practical applications of LSD and other psychedelics. MK-ULTRA is something you may have heard about. There are some chilling reports on YouTube about human experimentation under the Church Committee. Crazy times, the 60's.

    There was a pretty good movie about psychotronics and all that other stuff the hippies were interested in:

  • Why are drugs so popular?
    Clarify what you mean by this.180 Proof

    What I mean is that since a very long time, monotheistic religions and other religious folk have dissuaded the lotus eaters or other drug users from gaining a voice about the aspect that drugs present to any person. Drugs, especially those in charge of their administration (such as shamans), have been in opposition to the clergy and priests narrative of a good life to be found in service of their creator and further salvation from the pains of the material world by worship of their creator and savior.

    What more can I say?
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    Brave New World.Vera Mont

    That book was banned, as is this website, @Wayfarer...
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    Why is there so much glamouraziation of overpriced cars, film performers, football players and Rocket launchings? People get excited about some really dumb stuff.Vera Mont

    If what you're saying is true, then is there any truth to gleaning into one's inner life through a drug? Based on what I am reading, I think these deeply personal experiences, may have significant meaning if not truth. Is this correct?
  • Is communism an experiment?
    AI would not be able to grasp the thoughts, motivations, and circumstances of 10 people, let alone millions.NOS4A2

    I'm not sure if you understand how the marketplace works. The marketplace is based on the relation between supply and demand. Where there is supply, demand is measured by the rise or decline in prices. Computers for the most part already do this kind of assignment of prices to goods.

    The only thing a computer cant do at the moment is create supply.
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    I found out though that psychedelics are not without their dangers. I flew too close to the sun and got burned. And I have had some life struggles that I am not sure aren't partly a result of my use of psychedelics. It's hard to test the counterfactual though. I can't know how my life would have gone without them.petrichor

    Regarding counterfactuals, and the doubt in your mind about these or some of these experiences, why is there so much glamourization of psychedelics? I mentioned this in another comment; but, people think there is some kind of 'truth' to these experiences; but is there really any truth to them?
  • Why are drugs so popular?


    I agree; but, I am somewhat hesitant to believe that any government will want its population to start taking drugs to remedy boredom.
  • Is communism an experiment?
    No matter the skill and sagacity of the central planner, whether human or AI, he is beset by the knowledge problem. It is the problem of how to secure the best use of resources known to any of the members of society, for ends whose importance only these individuals know.NOS4A2

    I beg to differ. AI as a central manager will be able to do this with greater ease than any human manager. Everything in the marketplace is heading towards computerization. With greater complexity in the marketplace, then only AI can do it.

    If not AI, then who?
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    One self medicates because one is in a state of such confinement in one's own mind, and such alienation from reality, that intoxication actually brings one closer to reality for a short while.unenlightened

    This is perplexing to me. I say that because the use of hallucinogens or psychedelics are associated with psychotic states of the mind. Psychosis is by definition a break from reality. How can a break from reality bring one closer to reality?
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    "Survival" in the context of evolutionary theory is reproductive, not personal. Maybe sex drugs and rock and roll, is a by-product of the resulting euphoria.Metaphysician Undercover

    It didn't result in increased survival; it resulted in increased enjoymentVera Mont

    It's interesting to note, that nowadays we call the use of drugs as a recreational thing. I suppose this means that the behavior is an outlet...
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    Marx said "Religion is the opium of the masses". In late global Capitalism, perhaps addictive intoxication (i.e. escape, distraction, self-anaesthetization) is the religion of the masses.180 Proof

    No, I think the issue is an impoverished spiritual life. But, Marx could have been right about the substitution of drugs for religion...
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    An interesting question is why humans evolved in a way that enabled alterations of consciousness through chemical substances. That is, what did our earliest ancestors gain by getting drunk that resulted in their increased survival?Hanover

    Very interesting question, indeed.

    The correlation between alcohol and sexual behavior is obvious. We limit its use to adults and create specific areas for its consumption, where we gyrate to rhythmic beats around scantily dressed members of the opposite sex.

    Sex, drugs, and rock and roll as they say.

    If a substance lowers one's inhibitions and that results in reproduction, those best affected by it will do better to spread their genes.
    Hanover

    I don't think it is a matter of greater survivability. I mean, I don't know if shamans were the norm for every primordial group of humans living together; but, nearly every continent has one or another kind of hallucinogen out there.

    We are the descendants of drunk fuckers. Literally.Hanover

    Food for thought, I guess. Thanks for commenting!
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    Well, at least with regard to psychedelics, for some they help to catalyze higher states of enlightenment. Here’s Timothy Leary’s account of his acid acid trip:Joshs

    Some people find some kind-of 'truth' to those psychedelic experiences; yet it seems like a shortcut for desired revelations about one's inner-life. An interesting side-note, namely, is there any 'truth' to LSD or psychedelics, in general?
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    There were all kinds of dire predictions about slippery slopes, a surge of drug use and increase in traffic accidents, etc. You know what actually happened? Nothing.Vera Mont

    What I view this, to-be, is a normalizing in relations between the desire for people to medicate themselves through mood-altering substances. It's a fickle game for the pharmaceutical industry who probably oppose self-medication, so the government is responding by regulating the use of drugs and not simply legalizing drugs like states did.

    It brought in a nice revenue from licenses (instead of the money-sink that policing users had been for many years) as well as boosting the legitimate economy. License holders make a decent living as well as paying taxes. Most people take their pot home or to a party and enjoy it in private.Vera Mont

    The US government made $20 billion dollars since marijuana became legalized.

    Most commonly, because they are unhappy or anxious. Most of the unhappy people have good reason to escape the reality in which they live. Most anxious people feel more in control when they change perspective.Vera Mont

    Have you heard about the book, Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence? I mean, I think the mood-alteration is associated, as you say, with anxiety. But, what a strange way to treat anxiety, with dopamine, really?
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    But more generally speaking, it's basically the only "instant mood change" available to man. Bills too high? Wife got you down? Dog ran away? Wife ran away with your dog and left you with a bill? Don't worry, get high! Heh, something like that.Outlander

    I'm hesitant to consider the listed reasons as rationalizations; but, regarding psychologizing the issue, I would like to know why people seek mood alteration? What's the reason why people want to alter their mood?
  • Why are drugs so popular?
    I'd like to add to my OP, that I don't quite understand the 1960's that well. I know it was the counterculture movement; but, I don't understand why it became a fascination with drugs... I mean, it was about peace, love, and political activism; but, why the popularity arose to drugs?
  • Is communism an experiment?
    Look, there's nothing about shoe salesmen or coal workers which prohibits them from being good managers, but various revolutionary sources assign workers managerial tasks only as they become educated and experienced enough to be effective managers. Motivated shoe and coal workers can acquire managerial skills on the job and in classrooms. I know American workers who, though lacking BAs and MBAs, have the talent and experience to be great managers. The higher in the organization one goes, the more that is expected. We all know professional managers, with Harvard MBAs to boot, who should or will or did get the boot.BC

    Seemingly, as you are the only person who addressed the OP's sentiments about Soviet styled central managers, then I just wanted to say, that the importance of well qualified managers in any society has been something that has concerned the elite of any nation for a long time.

    It can be argued that the only reason the Soviet Union failed was due to the clumsiness of the central managers governing economics of Soviet Russia, and ALL the satellite states, which is dumbfounding that they got so little wrong apart from the stark differences with capitalist societies.

    Given that you're willing to acknowledge that even democracies are experiments, as such, then I suppose this should appreciate in your mind, the concern of having a well operating socio-economic system. I remember, whilst living in a foreign country, a saying, that if I lay on the ground or if I stand, always 2000 (units of money) are due to me. This goes into the old topic, about how communism was vastly less efficient and productive than other capitalist societies, which is a separate topic, which I think is also true, given the lack of focus on having a good managerial class.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Here's me laughing hard about the right that thinks the Department of Justice is a political toy that the left uses whenever they feel like it.

    I mean, just look at what happened to Hunter Biden.
  • Thrasymachus' echo throughout history.
    I was thinking more in the context of personal freedom.Paine

    Yes, it seems that the Greek concept of the polis, seemed to prevail over what community Plato had put forward.

    But I am also told that there is something about the results that will satisfy the need to violently oppose what is happening.Paine

    Yes, again. I believe that Marx had to, as you say-by force- upend the continuation of exploitation of the proletariat by the few bourgeoisie.

    So, where does that differ from the view of community Plato put forward?Paine

    It would not make sense to say that Plato would have agreed with Marx; but, rather the other way around. The dialectics of history are many and cannot be reconciled with the Forms.
  • Thrasymachus' echo throughout history.
    Where does one logic begin and the other end?Paine

    In history, according to Hegel's dialectics?
  • Thrasymachus' echo throughout history.


    The context or stipulation to the term you provided doesn't seem to be addressed by what was meant by Thrasymachus.

    Justice is a concept made-up by not one person; but, a group of people who believe in it, not the individual.
  • Thrasymachus' echo throughout history.
    I think it would be along the lines that the fight-to-the-death or submit scenario, that appears during the pursuit of recognition, changes both sides where the 'powerful', as such, confers power to the slave in spite of itself.Paine

    Very interesting. What about Marxism? Seems to follow into Marxist logic?
  • Thrasymachus' echo throughout history.
    I wonder what Hegel or Hegelians would say...
  • Fate v. Determinism


    To have a fate seems to imply that there is a possibility in one's future to live out. Otherwise, if it were all deterministic, then your fate would always be the same and never change.
  • Fate v. Determinism
    It seems that the notion of 'fate' cannot exist without the need for an actual possibility in the future chain of events.
  • The philosopher and the person?
    Having looked and searched several topics about philosophers (most notably, Nietzsche, Wittgenstein, and Heidegger), it seems that it means a lot to a person who or what a philosopher did in their respective lives.

    Just my research into the topic...
  • The history surrounding the Tractatus and my personal thoughts
    Could you be more clear? :sweat: I am only somewhat familiar with the mechanist theory as it pertains to folks like Descartes and the revival of early atomism...but you say picture theory of meaning.013zen

    Yes, if the modeling, which logical positivists were interested in, is about a true state of affairs (facts), then how can they account for complex relationships where differing parts of mechanisms render a theory or scientific discovery as true?

    In what sense?013zen

    I believe, in the sense that if one were to try (like many scientists do) and encompass a theory to be explanatory for the whole frame, then I believe that picturing relations in the atomistic sense is something that can't attempt to do.
  • How would you respond to the trolley problem?
    Since the whole dilemma is so pretentious, and morally devoid of agency, then I think the twist of sacrificing yourself instead of another person, no matter your wealth or standing in the situation, is morally permissible.
  • How would you respond to the trolley problem?
    Here's a twist to the dilemma.

    Sacrifice yourself to save 5 other people instead of another person.
  • The history surrounding the Tractatus and my personal thoughts
    Thank you for the detailed information, @013zen.

    I want to talk about the mechanist, picture theory of meaning. There is nothing wrong with it in my opinion; but, in my opinion, many scientists have moved from it towards not a picture denoting a microscopic view of a state of affairs; but, more towards a unified wholistic view of meaning as comprising many parts working in a system. This is where the picture theory of meaning, simply can't zoom out and broaden its scope to account for new parts of the whole to describe.

    Do you agree with this?