Ok, I'm now re-reading UBIK, but at a snails pace because I'm taking copious notes. :grin:

I only ask because to whatever extent the Russian people are duped or not duped by state propaganda, I assume they know this whole thing happened. That seems significant.

Also an excellent discussion point. I’m feeling motivated to get this thread going.

Has this at all penetrated Russia’s native propaganda front? There seem to be cracks that aren’t easily painted over.

It's been years since I read it though, and often can't convince myself to reread things just for class. — Srap Tasmaner

Haha, that's fair enough. There's no requirements, I just personally feel responsible for re-reading it in order to make a quality OP.

Just wait for the forthcoming thread, then!

I'm not super well read on him. I've read a few I didn't care for, like Eden. I do like the recurring theme in some of his work of alien life being incomprehensible to us and resistant to our anthropomorphization, something the Strugatsky Brothers also explored.

I was thinking more about the 1960s I guess? Like Jack Vance, Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov, etc — frank

Ah, those I would consider Hard Sci-Fi. PKD began trying to write normal, everyday non-Sci-Fi novels and was not successful, so he pivoted to harder Sci-Fi and found some success. It was a job, yes. He gradually became more successful, and then pivoted away into more philosophical novels.

someone showing up to PKD's door with Christian fish necklace and it caused some epiphany in Dick? Was he struggling with mental health issues? — frank

Yes to both. There's a fascinating mythology surrounding him, his work, and his life. It's part of why I want to start the UBIK thread. The philosophical merit of the thread would go beyond the novel itself.

Well, now that I say that, I should clarify since I might have misspoken. I think and write too quickly at times. His later novels are not Hard Sci-Fi involving mutant aliens races and complex future technologies. Some of these things make appearances in earlier works, but they are essentially non-existent in later works. By "old school" are you referring to the truly old school like Wells? I might have misinterpreted. The Sci-Fi qualities of some laters works are nearly subsumed by an obsession with philosophy, mysticism and religious symbols.

I haven't read that, but I've read pretty much all of Philip K. Dick's short stories. He's old school science fiction. — frank

His later novels are anything but old school Sci-Fi. I plan on starting a serious thread about UBIK. I need recruits.

There are good images, yes, despite his terse prose. I was going to go into more detail but want to save it for the mythical thread that shall one day appear.

If you've ever seen the Russian version of Solaris, it captures that old school vibe pretty well. — frank

Yes, Tarkovsky's take on Lem's novel. I enjoyed the film a lot and need to re-watch it. With Tarkovsky I'm a bigger fan of Stalker and Mirror, but this is a reading thread. I absolutely loved Lem's Solaris novel, so seeing the film second was a let down because it's so different. But that's Tarkovsky. I saw Stalker first and then read the Strugatsky Brother's Roadside Picnic. It seems whichever you experience first is your preference, at least with me.

Another great Lem novel is Memoirs Found in a Bathtub. "Kafkaesque"...

Good point.

There's a silver casing to every thug...?

Oh sure, I'm just asking questions in part to better understand the situation.

Isn't he also a member of the Oligarch class he's talking about?

Could there be an inkling of truth in some of what he's describing?

Interesting to read your thoughts. I still plan on making a thread, so I'll wait to respond. I need to read it again to respond to some of your points anyway.

I’m unsure what to read next, so I’ve been combing through sections of The Nag Hammadi Library again. If nothing else it’s good for falling asleep. The fiction kick I’ve been on for awhile isn’t always good for that.

Pizza is for all seasons, whether weather or life.

:fire:

I'm a notoriously non-visual person; I don't remember anything about what stuff looks like. I have a hard time understanding visual art, whether paintings or dance or whatever. I've been a huge fan of the below piece since I was in college. This is a version recorded in studio by one dude; he replaced some of the instruments he doesn't play (strings, bass clarinet etc) with keyboards. It sounds like a gimmicky idea, but it's actually an excellent performance of the piece.

For some reason, despite everything, at around 2:35, the first time I heard this piece a very stark image came into my mind: of people (dancers maybe?) dramatically turning their heads and seeing a somehow unexpected sunrise, and then irresistibly moving their bodies towards it with joy. I ugly-cried the first time I had this experience. I'm over sharing, but felt the need for whatever reason. Enjoy, hopefully.



Edit: I forgot to mention that one reason I really love this version of the piece is that Erik's instrumentation and mix brought out elements of the piece that I had never noticed before, which I think is what triggered this whole spiritual experience for me.

I find politics unattractive for the most part. — Tom Storm

So do I. It’s nice to hear the same from an intelligent person I respect.

Keep clowning until you see them face to face, ya bitter crank.

If you take him at face value, the reason he claims to have evidence without sighting it is because of what he describes as "black budget illegal programs". He details them more if you get past 10 minutes. I'm not saying it's worth your time.

There's been a bit of a sea change in media about UFOs/UAPs in the past few years. This New Yorker article is possibly an example, from 2021. Ironically, Today (the 12th), the Dr. Steven Greer mentioned at the top of that article gave another National Press Club conference, which you can watch here. (edit: it starts around 50 minutes in since it was a live stream). I'm currently watching it. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it's interesting that the dude in the OP video would come forward days before this Press Club event. He seemed full of shit to me, if I'm being frank. For full disclosure, I don't think it's absurd to posit that other intelligent life exists in the universe; on the other hand, I've followed this Steven Greer a bit, and can't decide if he's a total kook or not. He may be, but if so he's fooling himself, I think. He seems sincere.

Atheist dogmatist confirmed.

Well said as always.

This is a great post.

I’m referring to how the OP defines it. Everyone seems to have forgotten what this thread is about.

The irony of this thread is that despite having gone off topic, it essentially shows us what Atheist dogma looks like. A successful thread after all.

Quote where you think I have typed something fanatical? — universeness

lol

:clap:

I'm not an atheist and I carefully read the OP instead of immediately blaring an anti-religion foghorn, so I'm not sure what you're sending right back at me.

No, an example of what I’m talking about would be you.

I’ve read Ehrman, he’s great.

Link repeated from Paine back on page 3, who seems to be about the only person to have noticed that the thread is primarily about atheists' understanding of religion, or the lack thereof. — unenlightened

Reading comprehension tends to go out the window when some types of atheists are triggered.

@T Clark emoji. :roll:

I just learned what a tclemoji is.

Perhaps a short story. — T Clark

*Thumbs up pic*

It was a neat idea - a battle between the Nazis and the surrealists in Paris. — T Clark

If anything I think the concept is actually kind of pretentious. A military vs. an artistic movement is pretty on the nose. As long as other novels have concepts that are more realistic, in which to set the fantastic, I’m willing to give something a shot.

Wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers.