Yet in this passage, and even though Socrates has said 'God knows whether it happens to be true' ... — Wayfarer
...he nevertheless says 'anyone who is to act intelligently....must have had sight of this.' — Wayfarer
Notice 'present in the soul of each person'. — Wayfarer
Reading it with people who are invested and care must have been such a treat. — dani
when Wittgenstein states that "the variable name 'x' is the proper sign for the pseudo-concept object (T. 4.1272)." - he is simply saying something about the essence of symbolic representation in formal logic. — Sam26
The concept of an object, as Wittgenstein envisions it, is not real in the sense that it lacks empirical content or logical significance within his analysis. — Sam26
Strangely, he refers to objects as pseudo-concepts, and at the same time, they form the building blocks of atomic facts. Maybe it's a pseudo-concept because no concept can capture their essence. I'm not sure. — Sam26
I must point out that you don't have to understand all of this to understand Wittgenstein's basic ideas in the Tractatus. — Sam26
I look and see a fact in the world such as "the apple is on the table". As no-one else can see into my mind, in that telepathy is not a thing. I can only picture facts to myself. — RussellA
But who knows what these logical relations are. These logical relations cannot be determined by the picture alone. — RussellA
Within the same picture can be innumerable logical relations. — RussellA
Objects such as chairs, tables and books are not Tractarian objects. These are objects in ordinary language. and the Tractatus is not dealing with ordinary language. — RussellA
3.1431 "The essence of a propositional sign is very clearly seen if we imagine one composed of spatial objects (such as tables, chairs, and books) instead of written signs.
The key word is "imagine". Wittgenstein is using an analogy. He is not saying that tables, chairs and books are Tractarian objects. — RussellA
the Formal Concept establishes the relations between its parts, "x" and "number". — RussellA
if "number" is a pseudo-concept then "x" must also be a pseudo concept. — RussellA
The same [as applies to 'object] applies to the words ‘complex’, ‘fact’, ‘function’, ‘number’, etc.
They all signify formal concepts, and are represented in conceptual notation by variables ...
If we were only picturing facts to ourselves, then we are using a Private Language — RussellA
Even if we were picturing facts to ourselves, we would have to make the conscious choice whether i) the red in the model is picturing the red in the world or ii) the wood in the model is picturing red in the world. — RussellA
A picture presents a situation in logical space, the existence and non-existence of states of affairs.
(2.11) — Fooloso4
They are pseudo-concepts because they are simples.
2.02 "Objects are simple" — RussellA
On the one hand the propositional variable "x is a number" signifies a formal concept and on the other hand the variable x signifies a pseudo-concept object. Therefore, a formal concept cannot be a pseudo-concept. — RussellA
From the picture itself, we cannot know. We need someone to come along and tell us which is the case i) or ii), and if that happens, this destroys the Picture Theory, which is meant to stand alone. — RussellA
(2.1)We picture facts to ourselves.
(2.11)A picture presents a situation in logical space, the existence and non-existence of states
of affairs.
(2.15)The fact that the elements of a picture are related to one another in a determinate way represents that things are related to one another in the same way.
Let us call this connexion of its elements the structure of the picture, and let us call the possibility of this structure the pictorial form of the picture.
Yes a red toy car can picture a real red car, but the flaw in the Picture Theory is the statement "had to be stipulated", which has to happen outside the Picture Theory. — RussellA
Why cannot it be the case that wood pictures a truck, metal pictures a bicycle and marble pictures a car? — RussellA
There is no necessity that a red piece of wood pictures a red car, and yet the Picture Theory depends on this unspoken necessity, which seems to me to be a fundamental flaw in the Picture Theory. — RussellA
There are two kinds of objects, concepts proper and pseudo-concepts. — RussellA
(4.1272)So one cannot say, for example, ‘There are objects’, as one might say, ‘There are books’.
In our ordinary world, something that falls under a concept proper can also be a concept proper. — RussellA
... the Aristotelian concept of essence (which Thomas inherits) ... — Relativist
The Tractatus mentions three kinds of concepts: formal concept, concept proper and pseudo-concept. — RussellA
Objects are pseudo concepts because they exist in the world and make up the substance of the world. — RussellA
The number 3 is a sign that signifies a number. Numbers are formal concepts. Therefore, the number 3 is a sign that signifies a formal concept — RussellA
(6.2)Mathematics is a logical method.
The propositions of mathematics are equations, and therefore pseudo-propositions.
(4.126)When something falls under a formal concept as one of its objects, this cannot be expressed by means of a proposition. Instead it is shown in the very sign for this object. (A name shows that it signifies an object, a sign for a number that it signifies a number, etc.)
(4.1271)Every variable is the sign for a formal concept.
For every variable represents a constant form that all its values possess, and this can be regarded as a formal property of those values.
Why do you think that particular numbers, such as the number 1, are not formal concepts? — RussellA
(4.12721)A formal concept is given immediately any object falling under it is given. It is not possible, therefore, to introduce as primitive ideas objects belonging to a formal concept and the formal concept itself. So it is impossible, for example, to introduce as primitive ideas both the concept of a function and specific functions, as Russell does; or the concept of a number and particular numbers.
You're close, but this isn't quite right, I don't believe.
In the function: "T(x)", both "T()" and "x" show that to each corresponds a different formal concept. — 013zen
This is to say, that there is a formal concept associated with it, but "x" is not itself a formal concept, nor does it name a formal concept — 013zen
.For example, if an apple was a logical object in logical space, it would have the necessary properties such as weight, colour and taste. — RussellA
There are proper concepts such as "grass" and formal concepts such as the variable "x". — RussellA
I'm suggesting that in the expression "grass is green" is true iff grass is green, objects such as grass are not referring to actual objects, which are divisible, but must be referring to logical objects, which can be indivisible, and are simples. — RussellA
As part of a propositional analysis apples and tables can function as simples. Whether they do does not depend on their being possible, but on whether further analysis is needed in order for the proposition to make sense, that is, to know what is the case if it is true. — Fooloso4
Book is not a formal concept.
— Fooloso4
I agree. The variable x is the formal concept, not the book. — RussellA
I agree that the expression "logical objects" may be read in two ways. It can be referring to either 1) objects that are logical or 2) logic can be an object. — RussellA
As concepts can be simples, the concept "grass" could be a simple, and as words such as "grass" logically picture an object such as grass existing in a logical space, this suggests that objects such as grass are also simples. — RussellA
At 4.126 Wittgenstein introduces the term "formal concepts".
— Fooloso4
In the function T (x), where T is on a table, the function T (x) is true if the variable x satisfies the function T (x). For example, T (x) is true if the variable x is a book.
As I understand it, the variable x is what Wittgenstein is defining as a formal concept. — RussellA
If we wish to understand the thought processes of the Islamic State or the Taliban, we need only read the Old Testament. — alan1000
Logical objects in logical space puts a limit on what is possible — RussellA
Objects such as apples and tables as logical objects are possible and therefore simples. — RussellA
Whether it does combine depends on whether or not the atomic fact obtains. — Sam26
"...there is no object that we can imagine excluded from the possibility of combining with others (T. 2.0121)." — Sam26
Trump’s candidacy is not official until the Nominating Convention in July in Milwaukee. — Wayfarer
so a step back. — Sam26
... arranged to form any possible fact (state of affairs). — Sam26
Objects by themselves are mere potentiality ... — Sam26
Unlike you, just because I have a philosopher in my name, doesn't mean I'm a blind adherent. — schopenhauer1
Who definitively knows this? — schopenhauer1
Why must it be an object and not a unified whole? — schopenhauer1
What he is saying is that in order for atomic facts be about something ... — schopenhauer1
Whether or not they are right about there being logically simple entities is another question entirely, — 013zen
So there are metaphysical claims- objects, substance, states of affairs (arrangements of objects)
There are epistemological claims- facts, atomic facts, true and false propositions. — schopenhauer1
without the reader doing the heavy-lifting — schopenhauer1
as Banno pointed out, his major point is right at the top:
The world is the totality of facts, not of things.
— 1.1 — schopenhauer1
That is to say, Wittgenstein is using circular reasoning, and "double-dipping" his idea of logical structure (picture) in covertly hiding his idea of atomic facts in the idea of objects. — schopenhauer1
"Objects being arranged" allows for ----> States of Affairs. — schopenhauer1
Is it "States of Affairs" of the World, or is it Atomic Facts of the World? — schopenhauer1
(2)What is the case—a fact—is the existence of states of affairs.
One is a "realism" whereby the world exists independently of facts, and the other is an idealism of sorts whereby the world is simply the logical coherence of the world. — schopenhauer1
That is to say, objects are given short-shrift. — schopenhauer1
(2.014)Objects contain the possibility of all situations.
To me it's just a place holder for "go pound sand and don't look behind the curtain cause I just want to move forward with my argument and not go further into those pesky philosophical metaphysical things". — schopenhauer1
He doesn't define them other than they exist and facts are about them. — schopenhauer1
(2.021)Objects make up the substance of the world.
(2.023)Objects are just what constitute the unalterable form of the world.
In the Tractatus, Wittgenstein was trying to avoid a pure Coherentism, where one proposition gets its meaning from another proposition etc, by ultimately founding propositions on states of affairs that exist in a world outside these propositions. — RussellA
(2.0211)If the world had no substance, then whether a proposition had sense would depend on whether another proposition was true.
4.122 is saying that propositions cannot describe properties and relations, but can only show them. This is the difference between what is said and what is shown. — RussellA
The Tractatus is not about universal concepts describing a world, but about particular propositions (which are particular thoughts) showing particular states of affairs. — RussellA
(2.12)A picture is a model of reality.
(2.15)The fact that the elements of a picture are related to one another in a determinate way represents that things are related to one another in the same way.
Let us call this connexion of its elements the structure of the picture, and let us call the possibility of this structure the pictorial form of the picture.
(2.151)Pictorial form is the possibility that things are related to one another in the same way as
the elements of the picture.
Facts set out the configuration of objects. — Banno
There is nothing much that can be said about objects per se; — Banno
Objects make up the substance of the world. (2.021)
— Fooloso4
(2.022)It is obvious that an imagined world, however different it may be from the real one, must have something—a form—in common with it.
(2.023)Objects are just what constitute this unalterable form.
(2.024)The substance is what subsists independently of what is the case.
(2.025)It is form and content.
(2.026)There must be objects, if the world is to have unalterable form.
(2.027)Objects, the unalterable, and the subsistent are one and the same.
(2.0271)Objects are what is unalterable and subsistent; their configuration is what is changing
and unstable.
It has also to be understood that the Argument for Substance is rejected in PI. — Banno
His definition is like one in computer programming it seems — schopenhauer1
Logic as the term is used in the Tractatus, is not primarily a human activity. Logic is not propositional. Propositions are logical. Logic deals with what is necessary rather than contingent. — Fooloso4
You mine [might?] as well just start with atomic facts.. — schopenhauer1
(6.13)Logic is not a body of doctrine, but a mirror image of the world. Logic is transcendental.
(1.13)The facts in logical space are the world.
(2.0121)Just as we are quite unable to imagine spatial objects outside space or temporal objects outside time, so too there is no object that we can imagine excluded from the possibility of combining with others.
If I can imagine objects combined in states of affairs, I cannot imagine them excluded from
the possibility of such combinations.
(2.012)In logic nothing is accidental: if a thing can occur in a state of affairs, the possibility of the
state of affairs must be written into the thing itself.
However, one feature of the Tractatus is Wittgenstein's removal of relations and properties from his ontology. — RussellA
In a certain sense we can talk about formal properties of objects and states of affairs, or, in the case of facts, about structural properties: and in the same sense about formal relations and structural relations.
(Instead of ‘structural property’ I also say ‘internal property’; instead of ‘structural relation’, ‘internal relation’.
I introduce these expressions in order to indicate the source of the confusion between
internal relations and relations proper (external relations), which is very widespread among philosophers.)
It is impossible, however, to assert by means of propositions that such internal properties and relations obtain: rather, this makes itself manifest in the propositions that represent the relevant states of affairs and are concerned with the relevant objects.
For the Tractatus, objects combine as particulars not as universals. — RussellA