Only because the reasonable - and I will not debate the definition of 'reasonable' - people who have dared to speak out in public will have been silenced. — Vera Mont

Is this a prediction? Four years from now, no one will be speaking out in public against Trump because they will all have been silenced?

Given the absolute deluge of criticism that Trump has received and is receiving I find that very hard to believe. But hey, if you're willing to make that prediction then we have at last found someone who is taking the premise of this thread seriously.

However you refuse to back your point up by identifying what these evens of note might be. — Tobias

I've given you literally a blank check - 'fascism' can mean whatever you believe it means - and you still won't take the bet because you yourself evidently do not take the idea that the US may devolve into fascism of any description seriously either.

And if you're expecting me to wade into details about something I don't take seriously to begin with then you are sadly mistaken.

Now, I appreciate the fact that a 1000 Tzeentch-coins represents a substantial value, but you're sort of missing the point. I don't care what definition of fascism you use. Use your own made up definition if you want to.

In four years no reasonable person will believe the US has become fascist by any definition of the word. — Tzeentch

Now you are shifting from 'nothng of particular note' to a whole country becoming fascist. — Tobias

'Shifting' :rofl: If you fail to grasp that in a thread about fascism I was talking in the context of fascism then that sounds like your problem to me.

Yes, obviously, but you seem to have a rather ... peculiar... notion of what that term means. you think that cutting the subsidies of a member of the club that frustrates the clubs overall policy amounts to ' looming fascism' whereas threatening military action against against entirely peaceful nations does not. — Tobias

I pointed not just to the EU's actions vis-á-vis Hungary, but at a wider trend in the EU, involving the fact that it is an untransparent, undemocratic, authoritarian den of nepotism and corruption, which makes it a likelier candidate to develop into fascism than the US - which isn't to say that it is likely that it will.


Secondly, military action against peaceful nations is what the US does best. If you believe that shows the US is fascist, then it already is and has been for decades.

The US invades and destroys other nations like its their national pastime. But the term for this is 'jingoism', not fascism. Fascism refers to how a state is organized, not to a foreign policy.


Now, I appreciate the fact that a 1000 Tzeentch-coins represents a substantial value, but you're sort of missing the point. I don't care what definition of fascism you use. Use your own made up definition if you want to.


In four years no reasonable person will believe the US has become fascist by any definition of the word.

Of course we have to settle on what 'of note' means. — Tobias

I'm talking about fascism, obviously. Or anything catastrophic that is beyond the scope of what is normal for US presidents and is directly attributable to Trump. Keep in mind that he'll have Biden to contend with in terms of wanton incompetence.


It's routine for US presidents to ruin some part of the world for profit during their term, so don't yap about personal consequences.

Of course I'm not just talking about the Trump family. What rock have you been living under that you think oligarchy only became a thing under Trump?

Ah, right. No need to listen to anything they're saying, because we already know they're nazis. We've been told as much by the Media™, and they never lie to us about anything.

You had better get used to that if you're intent on misrepresenting what I say or putting words in my mouth.

If you refuse to listen to what they actually say and only listen to their opponents, you're refusing to do your due diligence.

Did you watch the interview Musk did with Weidel?

Was there anything in that interview that struck you as particularly nazi?

I called the EU a better example of looming fascism than the US, which you then tried to misconstrue as me calling the EU fascist according to a set definition.

All I'll ask of you is to not put words in my mouth or deliberately take the things I say out of their context.

Nothing new under the sun. The US has been an oligarchy for decades, and it still is. It's just that the previous oligarchs have been ousted and they don't like the new ones, so we have to suffer through the whole sanctimonious melodrama.

If anyone truly believed it was going to turn into something remotely fascist, I'm sure someone would have taken me up on my bet; predictably no one did, because all of them know they're just coping like disgruntled children, but unwilling to admit it.

Hey I'm only going by your definition of fascism here. If you felt the need to call the EU "fascists" earlier then you should do the same for Trump as well. Either both are fascists or none are. — Mr Bee

I never gave my definition of fascism, nor did I call the EU fascist, but this is just a dumb argument to make.

The EU is untransparent, overtly undemocratic and authoritarian. The unelected Queen Ursula has recently started her second term - a spot she only got because of her friendship with Merkel.

This situation cannot be compared to the US, and obviously between the two if any are closer to fascism it is the EU by a mile and a half.

This has been common practice in the US for decades. The only difference now is that the billionaires are not on the team you like, so suddenly it's fascism. :yawn:

Trump said he’d end this war on day 1. — Mikie

A bit of a cheap gotcha, but ok.

Let's say he ends the war in 100 days, as the Trump administration now says it intends, what then?

Apparently all weapon shipments to Ukraine have been halted for the next 90 days.

An aggressive foreign policy is nothing new for the US. It's not pretty, obviously, but it's not fascism in the way that it looms over the EU under the unelected Queen Ursula.

Define what is "of particular note". — ssu

Fascism, obviously.

I don't see how the two are remotely comparable.

If you want to believe economic rivalry between two independent nations equals fascism then you've thrown all sense of reason and proportion out of the window.

You're playing some victim card here now? Oof... You must be quite far gone.

As they do under any president. Trump's first presidency was nothing special, no fascism, no World War 3, no end of days, etc. and I see no reason to believe his second will be any different.

But by all means, believe the hysteria and propaganda. We'll see in four years. Take me up on my bet. There's a 1000 Tzeentch-coins in it if you win.

Not sure if you've noticed, but your boy is currently wanted for crimes against humanity.

That's a very exclusive little club he made himself, and by extension Israel, a part of.

Who'd like to take me up on a bet that in 4 years nothing of particular note will have happened, and you all are a bunch of hysterics?

I bet a 1000 Tzeentch-coins on it.

An unmitigated trainwreck is the only proper name for the Biden administration.

It completely mishandled Ukraine and Gaza, and estranged half the world causing US power in the Persian Gulf and much of South-East Asia to all but collapse. It pushed Russia into the arms of the Chinese, and it pushed various influential countries to join the BRICS.

It did all of this by exhibiting the same sense of self-importance and estrangement from reality as the people who are having a breakdown over Trump's second term.

:lol:

Are you really defending Trump and his followers with that? — Christoffer

I'm defending no one. I'm scolding you lot.

The pretense that Trump is somehow uniquely bad, while categorically ignoring that the Biden administration was objectively an unmitigated trainwreck and probably among the worst of all time, is childish and suggests a delusional view of reality that is unbecoming of adults, let alone philosophically-inclined, intelligent people.

And these people simultaneously fail to understand that they are part of the problem. America (and large parts of the world, for that matter) are done with them, and people like them, the ideas they uphold and their hypocrisy.

The total lack of self-reflection amidst the moral whinging makes this collective mental breakdown even harder to watch.

It's like watching children getting confronted with reality. But they throw a tantrum and there is no adult around to spank them.

This forum is turning into a clownshow with all the adults whinging over a lost election. Jesus.

The Biden administration was 'involved' in the same way it has been 'involved' the last year - ceaseless groveling before the lobby and writing blank checks to Netanyahu in the vain hope it would lead to a Dem victory.

The fact that Steve Witkoff was able to achieve this in a single sitting just goes to show how reluctant Biden was to put any meaningful pressure on Netanyahu.

What is 'quite telling' is that in light of this you're still trying to give Biden credit, while unwilling to acknowledge Trump did a good thing.

Meanwhile, instead of continuing on Biden's policy of wanton destruction, Trump achieved a cease-fire in Gaza.

I wonder if folks on this forum are able to acknowledge that, or if the cognitive dissonance would make their brains implode.

You can say what you want about Trump, but by pressuring Israel into accepting a cease-fire his team has done more good in a single sitting than the Biden administration over its entire term.

Well, it looks like the cease-fire is going to happen, and in my opinion this would clearly show that the Biden administration was simply reluctant to put any pressure on Israel whatsoever, likely in the hopes that stooging for the lobby would get the Dems re-elected.

The Trump administration apparently was able to achieve more in a single sitting than the Biden administration over its entire term.

Hopefully this will be the final nail on Netanyahu's coffin, and that will also be the only redeeming thing about the entire Biden administration. What a total disaster it has been.

China will in all likelihood not resort to military means to incorporate Taiwan. It probably feels there is no immediate need to force the issue, and over time political options will become available to reach unification without bloodshed.

However, if Taiwan were to declare its independence a Chinese intervention is all but a guarantee.

To put it quite simply, Western institutions have ran their course, and have now reached the terminal endpoint of any power structure, which is total delusion and corruption, and inevitable collapse.

One glance at the clowns that are running the show in the West tells you all you need to know.

The crisis is one of corrupt leadership, that has, in an effort to cling to its power and delusions, are increasingly painting the citizens of their countries as the problem.

Fortunately, those are the death throes of a dying system, but unfortunately, it may take a couple more years before it finally dies.

Trump's Mideast Envoy Forced Netanyahu to Accept a Gaza Plan He Repeatedly Rejected

Too early to celebrate, but the implications of this will be major if it sticks.

You can look up yourself what the various countries in the Middle-East looked like before US-Israeli intervention. Modern and even prosperous.

The way it has now been framed by the West is to make it seem like this problem is somehow inherent to Islam, to avoid facing the backlash of decades of malpractice.

In reality, virtually every Islamic extremist group can be directly tied to US-Israeli interventions, and regularly these extremist groups were directly supported by the US and/or Israeli government and secrets services at one point or another - IS, Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc.

The US and Israel are the pink elephant in the room, occasionally supported by English or French lackeys.

Islamic extremism is almost entirely a US-Israeli creation - the product of decades of meddling, interventions (and assorted war crimes) and the intentional spreading of chaos, so that the US would maintain control of the oil in the Persian Gulf, and Israel would not have to worry about a potential rival in the region.

Maybe you should make a seperate cope thread.

Genuinely, who cares?

Presidents that preceded him ruined entire countries, aided and abetted war crimes, constructed torture facilities, went to war on false pretenses, etc.

What Trump did doesn't even register on the same scale.

Individualism and the concept of civil rights is hundreds of years old, and in the West it has served as a model for relations between states and citizens for a very long time as well.

Atomization is a recent phenomenon.

I think that's indication enough that the relation you're suggesting exists between atomization and individualism is unsubstantiated and not obvious at all.

Who?

I wouldn't necessarily say this attack on traditional values is the product of communism, but I get where the association comes from since it seems to feature this same intention of reshaping identities and destroying old ones.

It also has the same outcome: atomization, nihilism, etc. - the desastrous effects of which you can still see in countries which were formerly communist.


Cultures used to be a product of an authentic process that spanned hundreds of years of shared history.

Those tended to be quite homogeneous, but not collectivist. It didn't have as its specific purpose to instrumentalize the individual for the benefit of the state.

Collectivism and the idea that people's identities could be artificially reshaped to suit the state's needs really only found practical success with the advent of mass media (propaganda and mass manipulation), with its most egregious examples being fascism and communism, which are basically two sides of the same coin; communism being fascism for ethnically diverse nations that could not forge a national identity around racial superiority.


Do note that these types of processes can happen alongside natural processes by which a society changes and reflects upon its customs. Whether we are currently looking at something natural or artificial is up for debate, but I lean towards the latter.