Im not arguing for self destruction, I'm saying, perhaps if all else fails, wouldn't it be wise for a person to embrace suffering and hope that by the end of it they want to die instead of fearing it?

Interesting, care to expand on that?

I agree it could be she's having doubts, or could be a mass murderer, I've known her a mere 25 years anything is possible. But how she talks she seems certain she's going to heaven and has nothing to worry about so that's all I can really know. But other than that we are in agreement.

Perhaps that article wasn't the best one to send I didn't read it I only googled the posted, that's my fault. Terror management theory at least to my knowledge and I could have it wrong of course says that once a creature obtains self awareness, they become aware of the end of the self and develope existential dread. To avoid this they manage the terror by creating everything, culture basically, hobbies, jobs, philosophy forum discussion. Basically distracting ourselves to stop thinking about death and create meaning. That's how I understand it and how I meant it.

And that response is on a totally different level (it is instinctive and physiological in origin), from any possible conscious awareness of death. To the extent that there is a specific fear of death, it is is much more likely to be social in origin. In civilised society sex and death are taboo. By custom they are kept hidden, not talked about, not to be seen by children. It is the hiding that invests death with particular significance and creates anxiety and the excitement of the forbidden. — unenlightened

Death is not taboo is simply uncomfortable to talk about and creates the sense of dread the terror comes first upon self awareness. And I don't understand the distinction between civilized and uncivilized here.

Isn't this 'actively cultivating suffering' a fetish indistinguishable from other possible fascinations? — Paine

Could you give some examples of these other possible fascinations so I can understand better?

Okay, I'm sorry if I've upset you it was not my intention, I'm trying to resolve these thoughts within my own mind.

Because he's sane? — Vera Mont

I'm saying it may not be sane to seek happiness and possessions, etc. if it will all get taken in an instant as you trip going up the stairs. (Knocking on wood for you!) But if you had actively cultivated suffering you might think, as your face hits the concrete, that this wasn't such a bad thing after all.

Is purely fictional entertainment, is good story telling, enough to appease our innate desire for drama, battle, conflict, struggle, etc. Or does bringing it into the real world dimension - through politics, acts of war, crime, fights, court cases etc add that extra wow factor for the audience and/or the players, is it moral to cross that boundary intentionally, or to be entertained by real life conflict?

Finally, can good story telling ever be removed from what happens in real life, for example if we reached a state of long term intergenerational peacetimes, would our fictional stories/media dramas suffer as a consequence? Would we get bored of media and stir up some real life shit? — Benj96

No it's not enough, this is why workplaces have so much drama and gossip. (I'm a part of the problem!)
We love to feel things even if it's sad and I find that so interesting how in the passed I've looked for sad scenes in movies just to cry for the hell of it! So yes, like vera mont said the war, crime, fighting aspect has an entire industry around pushing that into our eyes. Also like vera mont the answer, i believe, to the last question on the first paragraph is morally neutral or nonrelevant to morality.

Finally, to your last question, have you seen the news? We have fighter jets in America chasing down every get well soon balloon in the sky! That is to say YES, we would create conflict or at least they as in the ones in power and the ones behind the screens.

So you advocate that everyone have hopelessly painful lives as a preparation? — Vera Mont

I'm not advocating for it I'm asking why not advocate for it. And not necessarily make your lives painful as in self harming per se but seeking, discomfort, I suppose, or have such grim outlook on everything in life that death seems like a gift. Why does the human want to live a happy life instead of a miserable one if they lead to the same end?

For me the known too comes in a wide variety of flavors. Some knowns are quite pleasant while others are the converse. Learning to forget, from where I stand, can be an important aspect of life. Of course, at issue here from my vantage is that not all knowns are of beneficial value. Deep insights, acquaintances with beauty, and the like one one hand; grotesque violence as intense qualitative experience can serve as one example of something best left behind. As to holding on to the past, we typically do so only to better serve our future. Which is to say I find empirical knowledge to always be of instrumental, rather than intrinsic, value. So why fear loss of knowns if it comes via the form of nonbeing? — javra

It is because we want for these positive "knowns" and run away from the negative. What I'm trying to ask, and I fear I am failing, is why shouldn't we simply run towards suffering and pain, all these negative knowns in order to want death? Because you can have the most vibrant beautiful life full of fun but at the end of it all it's gone and that's horrific, to me at least. Other's have said that is not the case for them but it's my living experience that suggest otherwise.

I'm 71. I'm not ready to die, I'm having a pretty good time, but I'm not afraid. I'm not the only person like that. Here are some statistics from the web. I didn't check the validity of the source. — T Clark

Thank you, happy to join it!
The reason I used my grandmother as an example, and I have a few others from personal experience, is because she is a devout christian. To her belief system she shouldn't be afraid to die, she acted in the passed like she wasn't, but now that it is at her feet she is breaking down emotionally. I'm saying that most people may say they aren't afraid, I can say that right now I'm not afraid, but if I think for a moment to try and comprehend the end, or really think about what it means to not exist, and overwhelming terror comes over me that my mind quickly pushes away and seeks distraction from.
As my suggestion above why not simply seek to create the largest amount of suffering and pain possible to oneself in order to be more afraid of life than death?

It's not fear; it's greed. I like sunshine and trees, music and beer, being able to walk and see and taste and hear; I like affection, pleasant sensations, learning things and doing stuff and interacting with the living world. I want as much of it as I can get. When I don't enjoy it anymore, I will be ready and willing - nay, eager - to die. — Vera Mont

That's kind of what I'm getting at, but unfortunately many people aren't ready when they die. But if they had lived hopelessly painful lives they would have always been ready.

So is this the suggestion - because we fear death we should want to die?

Non comprendo. — unenlightened

I'm saying that because the fear of death is what drives humans to do everything. (Terror Managment Theory https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/terror-management-theory) What I'm suggesting is replace the fear with want, flip it on its head, fear life by making our lives full of suffering and pain, and love it when we are finally free to die.

But it's the only thing we can really expect, so why not spend ones entire life preparing for what is certain?

I shouldn't have made an umbrella statement, but have you met someone who is (perhaps you yourself) who is not afraid of death? Maybe it goes with age but as a 25 year old I think about it often.

Because it is the only thing that is certain and I think we have to find some way to come to terms with it.

If that blind person hadn't seen before you could use the feel of something to help that person imagine in whatever perceptual context they may have (I'm not blind so it's hard to comprehend what that would be like but I have an idea). Say for instance you want to describe a mountain you could say well you know how this rock feels. Rough in some areas, with protruding areas that are pointed? Well imagine that magnified by 1 million times. I think that would paint a picture so to speak.