I tend to find people are mostly friendly and helpful. Drivers less so. I have no real expectations of people and make no pronouncements about human nature. Culture and situations tend to shape behaviour. I am not often seen as rude but I have been known to give the odd person a rocket up the arse (as we say in Australia) but I don’t often need to.

Do you believe the balance between our focus on the positives and negatives has an optimal state or are we necessarily in various states of flux regarding how we regard others? — I like sushi

For various reasons, some people can become sexist, homophobic, racist, jingoistic, and many other negatives one can find in an individual or a group of people. This short list of negatives, which could be significantly longer, should answer your first question.

As an additional and more personal question, do you find it hard to be nice to people? — I like sushi

Despite the negatives I find it easy to be nice to people. There is a hidden truth that by being nice you can also be rewarded for, well, being nice. Being nice can also be viewed as kindness, which when professed constantly can be viewed as a good trait. I also find niceness, a sign of innocence when professed sincerely.

Humans quite frankly don't live that long, and as they age can become quite ugly.

This short list of negatives, which could be significantly longer, should answer your first question. — Shawn

Do you see this as a persistent trend or one that has waxed or waned over time?

Generally we tend to focus more on the negatives in fellow humans than on the positives. — I like sushi

Is this not the natural consequence of having a generally positive attitude? I assume everyone is amenable, cooperative and kind, and so it is remarkable when someone is unpleasant, and that is noteworthy, or newsworthy. I don't mention or even notice that every slice of bread is delicious and satisfying, but the odd mouldy crust gets my attention.

This is how I go on here; mostly i assume posters are friendly and want to arrive at the truth and a better understanding together, and when there are accusations and unpleasant comments, they stand out as something that has to be thought about in an entirely different way. What is this person trying to do, here? Have I upset them?

People Are Lovely

In what sense 'lovely'? Beautiful, attractive, pleasant, enjoyable. In a social situation are we easy-going and pleasing in manner? Loved and appreciated for being kind? Careful and caring.

I note this has been placed under 'Ethics', so is it a case that our behaviour to others reflects, is related to our taste and liking (aesthetics)? Are we more forgiving of friends than those we perceive as being hostile to us. Happier when we find beauty within and give expression to that in a smile, laughter and hope. Compared to feeling bad when we sense an ugly, mean spirit expressing hate?

Do you believe the balance between our focus on the positives and negatives has an optimal state or are we necessarily in various states of flux regarding how we regard others? — I like sushi

I think humans are necessarily in a state of flux, depending on mood and circumstances. And what we digest - reading, listening, looking and learning, eating and drinking. If there is an intake imbalance, then our output might likewise be affected. The more we can be open to another perspective, no matter our 'likes/dislikes', the more we might understand and less likely to become unlovely, narrow-minded bigots.

People seem to be attracted to, angered or swayed by, extreme stories in the media. Or just plain celebrity gossip. A daily, if not hourly fix of woe, angst, vicarious excitement.

As an additional and more personal question, do you find it hard to be nice to people? — I like sushi

Sometimes but not generally. It's about caring - not about yourself or what people think or how they look.
Start by being good to yourself. Not giving yourself too much of a hard time. Still that unbeautiful internal voice. Take good care of yourself.

But it's clear that even if we have a lovely garden, it might be a single weed that gets our attention. It stands out from the rest...and needs to be pulled.
Not that weeds are bad! And some wilder gardens can be just as beautiful in their own way.

I don't mention or even notice that every slice of bread is delicious and satisfying, but the odd mouldy crust gets my attention. — unenlightened

Yes, I think that is true. And one of the reasons I try to counterbalance any negativity by at least doubling the positive. Being aware of the pull of negative emotions. Accepting there will be 'low' moods but not dwelling there too long, when possible. Not always easy...

Do you see this as a persistent trend or one that has waxed or waned over time? — I like sushi

I think that through ratiocination, over the many years, we have actually recently been able to identify negative traits or even personalities in people. Much of this is done through the rearing of society through even the ideology of natural laws and rights of a group of people under a common banner. This banner has mostly been the concept of life without undue duress and the privilege of freedom provided by a government through a social contract, upon birth.

@I like sushi, I actually asked ChatGPT your second question, which I thought was a highly important question. Here's the feed from ChatGPT:

The balance between focusing on the positives and negatives in our perception of others is indeed complex and can be influenced by various factors. While there may not be a one-size-fits-all "optimal" state, achieving a healthy balance is important for well-being and effective relationships.

Cognitive Biases: Our focus can be swayed by cognitive biases. For example, confirmation bias might lead us to emphasize negative traits if we already hold a negative view, or to focus on positive traits if we have a positive outlook. Awareness of these biases can help us strive for a more balanced view.

Context and Situation: Our perceptions can shift based on context. In a stressful situation, we might be more inclined to notice negatives, whereas in a supportive environment, positive traits might stand out more. Recognizing these situational influences can help us adjust our focus as needed.

Personal Growth and Self-Awareness: Striving for self-awareness and personal growth can lead to a more balanced perspective. By reflecting on our own tendencies and working to understand and empathize with others, we can better manage our focus on positives and negatives.

Interpersonal Dynamics: Relationships themselves can affect how we view others. Trust and understanding built over time often lead to a more balanced view, whereas conflicts or misunderstandings might skew our perception towards the negative.

Overall, while we might be in various states of flux regarding how we regard others, actively working towards a balanced perspective—by being mindful of our biases, understanding the context, and striving for empathy—can help us achieve a healthier and more constructive outlook. — chatgpt.com

What I assume, from ChatGPT, is the formal notion of confirmation bias. It seems that within a context, one can even develop a confirmation bias towards the positives of people.

As ChatGPT concluded, which I think is also correct, is the notion of empathy. Whether one likes it or not, people are diverse on most statistical spectrums. Your welcome to derive your own conclusion based on opinions and thus confirmation bias based on them. Some of this is highly self-reinforcing...

What I assume, from ChatGPT, is the formal notion of confirmation bias. It seems that within a context, one can even develop a confirmation bias towards the positives of people. — Shawn

Well, of course! Ain't that what I just said? :wink:

Well, of course! Ain't that what I just said? :wink: — Amity

The irony is Chatgpt is bias.

The irony is Chatgpt is bias. — I like sushi

From which perspective?

:smile: Gotta love the Marcus but, of course, he's not always right - well, that is my opinion! :sparkle:

You are aware it is streamlined by the content it scraps and the people who run it right? So use your noggin ;)

Sure. Then read Plato.

Plato rarified the fact that Socrates death was due to bias professed towards him.

Sure. Then read Plato — Shawn

People never stop scrapping I guess :)

Except the fact is he did not say this.

People Are Lovely — Amity

To the degree they are interesting (i.e. unfamiliar), I agree.

Thread Title: People Are Lovely

To the degree they are interesting (i.e. unfamiliar), I agree. — 180 Proof

Well, that's an interesting perspective :chin:

The unfamiliar certainly holds its attraction, as can the familiar. Like attracts like. Why we want who or what we want can be a magical mystery.

A bizarre and beautiful spider can be interesting. Right up until it exudes its venom through its fangs.

Your words had a strange effect. I thought: 'strangers across a crowded room'. First Love?
The shimmering image of the South Pacific (50's film) with its themes of romance, prejudice and war.

Some enchanted evening
Someone may be laughin',
You may hear her laughin'
Across a crowded room
And night after night,
As strange as it seems
The sound of her laughter
Will sing in your dreams.

Who can explain it?
Who can tell you why?
Fools give you reasons,
Wise men never try.

Some enchanted evening - South Pacific

Thread Title: People Are Lovely

To the degree they are interesting (i.e. unfamiliar), I agree.— 180 Proof

Well, that's an interesting perspective :chin: — Amity

Lovely. :flower:

The unfamiliar certainly holds its attraction, as can the familiar.

Familiarity breeds ... "bizarre and beautiful spider" bites.

Your words had a strange effect. I thought: 'strangers across a crowded room'. First Love?

Or mistaken identity – shock of recognition – (like "seeing a ghost"). Btw, I don't care for musicals. :meh:

Familiarity breeds ... "bizarre and beautiful spider" bites. — 180 Proof

Contempt with familiarity. I can see this in close long-term relationships when boredom sets in. Or everyday life with no obvious heroism. But the ordinary can be extraordinary.

Do you find that the more you know about someone/something that it leads to a loss of respect? Not valued as much as the initial impact on senses and intelligence?

Would you look for more excitement - an exotic bite that could kill ya'?

What about the closeness of family? Your Mum. She might bore you to death with her memories and repetition of stories but does that lead to contempt? Perhaps just fleeting if love still there...

Just as in philosophy, we read and respond to the same old questions and responses. But a love persists. We can re/engage by using imagination/creativity, building on tradition to think outside the box. Make it interesting by a turn of the head or eye-swivel.

Or mistaken identity – shock of recognition – (like "seeing a ghost"). Btw, I don't care for musicals — 180 Proof

:smile: A ghost did appear - my ex-husband! Love's sweet dream :smirk:
Musicals. I used to enjoy. Tastes change.
Sorry if I assaulted your (and others') senses with a negative aesthetic experience. But you probably didn't even watch the clip. Cringing is allowed. Without pain, there is no...

BTW, I think more men enjoy musicals than would care to admit - same with love stories :razz:

Do you believe the balance between our focus on the positives and negatives has an optimal state or are we necessarily in various states of flux regarding how we regard others? — I like sushi

Our lives and communication with each other would become unnecessarily difficult or impossible if we'd focus on negatives only. In fact, it is irrational to focus on negatives when positive interpretations are available (this is basically the principle of charity).

To focus on negatives enables us to avoid negatives. To focus on positives enables us to enjoy positives. They're not mutually exclusive, so I'm not sure there's anything to balance here. Both are functions of our interest, both increase our fitness.

This --

Do you believe the balance between our focus on the positives and negatives has an optimal state or are we necessarily in various states of flux regarding how we regard others?

As an additional and more personal question, do you find it hard to be nice to people?

As this is a personal question I should probably answer it myself. My answer is YES. — I like sushi

And this --

I tend to find people are mostly friendly and helpful. Drivers less so. I have no real expectations of people and make no pronouncements about human nature. Culture and situations tend to shape behaviour. I am not often seen as rude but I have been known to give the odd person a rocket up the arse (as we say in Australia) but I don’t often need to. — Tom Storm

I do not find it hard to be nice to people. But, like Tom, I don't have real expectations of people -- in general. Except when it's within a context:
If I am talking to a professional adviser, I expect them to be, well...competent and professional in demeanor.
I do expect people to be chill when in a stressful time or situation. For example, during covid, I still tried to be friendly even though everyone was on edge for fear of getting sick.
I learned the hard way that the quality that I add to my work wouldn't necessarily be reciprocated by others I work with. Some will have varying degrees of aptitude or willingness to be good themselves.
Accepting people as they are is good. But accepting people as they are unconditionally would destroy me. If I couldn't bring myself to be nice to them (rarely happens), I just avoid them.

People have different limits of what they are ready to do in sudden events. Some by training, some by instinct. I cannot observe the results like a football game.

I figure our response is something we do not know ourselves.

I figure our response is something we do not know ourselves. — Paine

This is somewhat along the lines of what I was considering when I wrote the OP. Do we think we are what we perceive ourselves to be? How does this relate to the overall balance regarding negative and positive perspectives?

All too often in my life I have expressed certain opinions about myself to others and they have strongly disagreed.

I do think it is pretty clear that negative experiences drive us harder than positive ones, yet we are also overly optimistic and that this most probably balances out our higher attentiveness to negativity (threats and such).

It is interesting to see how the American "Can do" attitude has, to some degree, also bled over into arrogance. Is the American "Can do" attitude only a vestige of the previous generations now or is it still alive and kicking?

People have different limits of what they are ready to do in sudden events. Some by training, some by instinct...I figure our response is something we do not know ourselves. — Paine

Yes. Most think they have boundaries - drawing the line - which they would not cross in any event. Certain long-held positions and beliefs in place ready and waiting to be tested. Including bias and prejudice. I agree we might not always know how we would actually respond to sudden events. You would think that we might come prepared by exercises in 'What if...?' Or having perspectives/judgements when reading stories, real life or fiction.

Intuition or instinct often takes over when there is no time to think. What to do when you see someone in trouble in fast-flowing river or a wild sea. Would you jump in to save a dog, your dog?

We have patterns of thought, ways of looking at the world and judge ourselves and others. So, usual responses are pretty well known. Even if a white, male, American Christian does not act like we might expect or hope...

Earlier, I wrote:

I note this has been placed under 'Ethics', so is it a case that our behaviour to others reflects, is related to our taste and liking (aesthetics)? Are we more forgiving of friends than those we perceive as being hostile to us. Happier when we find beauty within and give expression to that in a smile, laughter and hope. Compared to feeling bad when we sense an ugly, mean spirit expressing hate?

Do you believe the balance between our focus on the positives and negatives has an optimal state or are we necessarily in various states of flux regarding how we regard others?
— I like sushi

I think humans are necessarily in a state of flux, depending on mood and circumstances. And what we digest - reading, listening, looking and learning, eating and drinking. If there is an intake imbalance, then our output might likewise be affected. The more we can be open to another perspective, no matter our 'likes/dislikes', the more we might understand and less likely to become unlovely, narrow-minded bigots. — Amity

The more we read of 'Americans' and their political/judicial system, the more we shake our heads.
But there is more than one kind of 'American'. Some voices are never heard or aren't recognised. It's scary to see the anger and violence that results. Always simmering under the surface. With guns, loved, polished and used. Beautiful to some, they symbolise individual control and believed to be a God-given right.

Back to the underlined above. @I like sushi, you didn't respond. There seems to be a path from aesthetics to ethics. Seeing people as 'lovely', or not. Loved or hated. The basis of how well they are treated. How practices are unjust towards those not favoured. The unforgiving good v bad.

In Popper's notes he views the distinction as aesthetic taste being of a 'private character ' while moral taste concerns people and their lives.

I am not entirely convinced by this distinction, but on the surface it seems like a reasonable enough demarcation (if for convenience only). I am probably more inclined to view 'ethics' as an offshoot of 'aesthetics' if that is what you are asking. It is still pretty much an unformed thought as I have only relatively recently begun to look more carefully at ethics and morals in general.

Thanks for your response. :sparkle:

Negative feedback has made me less stupid about what is happening. I do not know enough about this life to weigh that against the nurturing that has benefited me and others. Soft power is less visible than the hard kind. We remember the hard better. I celebrate the better acts, but it is mostly what I regret which follows me into dreams.

Being less punitive to oneself is not the same exchange of information that being less of an asshole to other persons is. Kafka put it well when describing a door made for us that we are convinced cannot be entered. A peculiar asymmetry. We are stuck with ourselves but have limited agency.

The culture "war" happening here is happening everywhere.

We solve it together or fall under the same sword.