Given I've read relatively few posts from you, I don't suppose that image means much to you. However someone who has put some thought into how information processing occurs in neural networks, might recognize that image as pointing towards some substantial differences in thought for the possessors of those different brains. — wonderer1

Well thanks for the interesting info, actually. Anyway as a personal note, I was strongly suspected to be autistic when I was a young kid but I wasn't formally diagnosed (...it's a long story. I am not really interested to getting diagnosed nowadays, although for a 'self-understanding' it would be cool,but for adults the diangostic process is demanding.). BTW, I actually believe that studying the brain can be insightful to understanding our minds. I do not accept physicalism, though.

Now I'm certainly 'less autistic' than Temple Grandin. I can pass as normal enough, and have even had to deal with skepticism towards the idea that I'm ASD on the part of people who know me well. Still, I know what Grandin means, although the social effects have been less profound for me than for her. — wonderer1

FWIW, I also related very strongly with the 'anthropologist on Mars' analogy. I do feel 'estranged', 'out of synch' with others etc. So, I think I can 'get' the feeling (although this 'alienation' can be caused by other factors). I also do 'appear normal' but I do certiainly live in an 'atypical' way, so to speak. I also notice that I 'socialize' in an atypical way etc.
I did in the past read info about autism, took some tests (and actually got scores compatible with autism).
As I said, however, other reasons can explain that and I am not formally diagnosed...

Are we imagining a situation where social interaction between people plays a prominent role? If so, what reason would there be to not expect autistic people in this afterlife to experience a painful sense of being an outsider? How do you imagine things being different? — wonderer1

Well, actually, I only hope that it will be 'good' (and BTW, I am agnostic about that). But even despite my own social difficulties, I recognize that some of the best moments in my life have been when I interacted with people (either online or IRL) and I do have a deep yearning for be part of a comunity (despite often seeking solitude because, well, company is overwhelming, and what seems natural for me is alien for others and viceversa. This 'disagreement' is actually exhausting and can be painful). So, I believe that discomfort/suffering that one can feel due to social interaction is due to contingent causes.
Hence, I believe that if the afterlife will involve a 'communal life' of some sorts this doens't imply that people who have social difficulties right now will suffer.

Anyway as a personal note, I was strongly suspected to be autistic when I was a young kid but I wasn't formally diagnosed (...it's a long story. I am not really interested to getting diagnosed nowadays, although for a 'self-understanding' it would be cool,but for adults the diangostic process is demanding.). — boundless

I've actually been through testing twice. Once in my mid twenties, after having a physicalist epiphany that lead to me thinking I should have myself tested for learning disabilitites. I brought up social issues with the person conducting the testing, but his response was, "I think that is just your style." I don't think knowledge of Asperger's or high functioning autism was very widespread in the US yet.

The second time was in my late forties after my wife recognized that a diagnosis of Aperger's made sense and I (somewhat reluctantly) came to agree with her.

The first round of testing, even without a very informative diagnosis, was very beneficial for me. The way I saw it then, is that I had been going through life walking into glass walls that everyone else seemed to walk right through. As a result of the testing I was able to get at least a sense of where the glass walls were, and develop work arounds. So I'm inclined to recommend getting the testing, despite it taking some substantial time, and possibly money.

But even despite my own social difficulties, I recognize that some of the best moments in my life have been when I interacted with people (either online or IRL) and I do have a deep yearning for be part of a comunity (despite often seeking solitude because, well, company is overwhelming, and what seems natural for me is alien for others and viceversa. — boundless

I know what you mean about communities. I tend to fade into the background (aside from the occasional smart ass remark) in real life groups. Internet forums, going back to Usenet newsgroups, have been very valuable to me because I can interact at a pace better suited to me. (Although even in internet forums I can often get involved in more discussions than I can really keep up with.)

I was telling a friend very recently how reading the book The Different Drum: Community Making and Peace has played a role in my somewhat unorthodox forum behavior. I call it practicing grumpy zebra style center's mind. :wink:

It's been very nice to meet you.

The first round of testing, even without a very informative diagnosis, was very beneficial for me. The way I saw it then, is that I had been going through life walking into glass walls that everyone else seemed to walk right through. As a result of the testing I was able to get at least a sense of where the glass walls were, and develop work arounds. So I'm inclined to recommend getting the testing, despite it taking some substantial time, and possibly money. — wonderer1

Thank you very much for sharing and for the advice. I am not american but italian BTW, and here it seems that is generally assumed by the general population that 'autism' is always a very, very serious condition. Even 'Asperger's' is seen as something that must be 'self evident' (at least in hindsight) and 'serious'. Forms of autism that are 'not obvious' seem an impossibility.
Of course, this is different for therapists, neurodiversity movements and so on. I think that here we are '10 years behind' the US, so to speak.

I know what you mean about communities. I tend to fade into the background (aside from the occasional smart ass remark) in real life groups. Internet forums, going back to Usenet newsgroups, have been very valuable to me because I can interact at a pace better suited to me. (Although even in internet forums I can often get involved in more discussions than I can really keep up with.) — wonderer1

Curiously enough, I manage to both 'fade away' in 'real life' and be very talkative, sociable, humorous and so on. But even when I am talkative/sociable/humorous I still feel 'out of synch' and in fact I do not do that in a 'ordinary' way so to speak.
Regarding online discussions, yeah, I find generally easier to speak about my interests and make discussions online and I too risk sometimes to spend too much time in them. This is due to both shyness and, so to speak, a lack of motivation to speak about my interests if I am not sure that the other person shares them.

I was telling a friend very recently how reading the book The Different Drum: Community Making and Peace has played a role in my somewhat unorthodox forum behavior. I call it practicing grumpy zebra style center's mind. :wink: — wonderer1

Thanks!

It's been very nice to meet you. — wonderer1

Thank you very much. The same goes for me.

I appreciate your response. I'm kind of in a dark place right now, and I'm not sure when I'll have the equanimity that I want to have in responding to you, but I will get back to you.

I am very sorry for hear that. I hope that you'll be good soon! :pray:

Thank you very much for sharing and for the advice. I am not american but italian BTW, and here it seems that is generally assumed by the general population that 'autism' is always a very, very serious condition. Even 'Asperger's' is seen as something that must be 'self evident' (at least in hindsight) and 'serious'. Forms of autism that are 'not obvious' seem an impossibility.
Of course, this is different for therapists, neurodiversity movements and so on. I think that here we are '10 years behind' the US, so to speak. — boundless

I don't think things are so different in the US, although for some time now there has been ongoing effort in the US to communicate that there is an autism "spectrum".

Thinking about this prompted me to take a look at the Wikipedia page for Hans Asperger. Not a very flattering picture. I wonder if Hans Asperger's association with Nazism and eugenics impeded the propagation of his insights.

Curiously enough, I manage to both 'fade away' in 'real life' and be very talkative, sociable, humorous and so on. But even when I am talkative/sociable/humorous I still feel 'out of synch' and in fact I do not do that in a 'ordinary' way so to speak. — boundless

I'd be very interested in hearing more, if you are comfortable elaborating.

I know for me there are confounding factors, resulting from being more intellectually inclined than many people I'm around, and having a reticence towards letting people see that aspect of me because of early experience with it being alienating to do so. One thing I like about TPF is that I feel comfortable here using whatever vocabulary comes to mind, rather than feeling like I need to consider whether the person I am talking to will see me as ostentatious if I am not circumspect in my use of language.

I guess I say this to point out that there may be psychological and/or neuropsychological issues involved, and it may not be easy to disentangle them.

Regarding online discussions, yeah, I find generally easier to speak about my interests and make discussions online and I too risk sometimes to spend too much time in them. This is due to both shyness and, so to speak, a lack of motivation to speak about my interests if I am not sure that the other person shares them. — boundless

I can very much relate to this.

I am very sorry for hear that. I hope that you'll be good soon! — boundless

I'm still experiencing occasional PTSD 'aftershocks', but I am much better now. I can't think of anything that has come along so 'out of the blue' and triggered a reaction in me the way that self defense thread did.

I don't think things are so different in the US, although for some time now there has been ongoing effort in the US to communicate that there is an autism "spectrum". — wonderer1

Well, I sort of agree with that: the difference is not so great, but IMO there is. Anyway, I don't think that Italy is 'late' because of some pecularity of my country. Actually, I think that the main problem is linguistic. Scientific research (included the one in 'neurodivergence') is all written in English. There is simply much more information in the 'anglosphere' than in other areas.

Thinking about this prompted me to take a look at the Wikipedia page for Hans Asperger. Not a very flattering picture. I wonder if Hans Asperger's association with Nazism and eugenics impeded the propagation of his insights. — wonderer1

Yeah, agreed!

I'd be very interested in hearing more, if you are comfortable elaborating. — wonderer1

The way I socialize and my sense of humor are just very peculiar. They are generally appreciated and I am considered somewhat 'original'. This originality is both something spontaneous and an ironic result of my attempt to try to 'fit in' and being more like others. Consciously monitoring my behaviors, thinking about 'what I should say' to be friendly/entertain etc has the result of me being seen as 'original', weird in a positive sense, I would guess (note that I do all of that in a somewhat automatic way, I have an instict to do that...). I don't consider it a negative trait, of course it has its 'perks', but is not something that renders social relations really satisfying.

I can have friendships, having a very good time with others but the a nagging sense of 'alienation' is still present, like say if I belonged to somewhere else. There is a difference in how I communicate, what I consider natural/obvious and so on.

Well, if you want I can share something more 'personal' in PM, if you are interested.

One thing I like about TPF is that I feel comfortable here using whatever vocabulary comes to mind, rather than feeling like I need to consider whether the person I am talking to will see me as ostentatious if I am not circumspect in my use of language. — wonderer1

I fully agree with this. How much I would like that 'real life' is like this forum, lol...

I'm still experiencing occasional PTSD 'aftershocks', but I am much better now. I can't think of anything that has come along so 'out of the blue' and triggered a reaction in me the way that self defense thread did. — wonderer1

I see, I am sorry for that, it must be very difficult to handle.