Seen some of his videos, gods help me! — Vera Mont
Aren't we all? Isn't that the purpose of this present endeavour? — Vera Mont
Background; struggle with and recovery from substance abuse; helping other addicts - that sort of thing? I know nothing of his private life, hobbies or charities. It would take a great deal of benevolence to make up for the bilge he gets paid for spewing out into the public discourse.Wondered if you wanted the humanizing aspect. — AmadeusD
It tends to keep the homicide stats down. Opposing 'views' can be hard on a society. Eg. "There is no such thing as witchcraft" vs "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."Why people care about 'agreeing' like it is something to be valued I have no idea. — I like sushi
Inside I am John Lenon's Imagine, but outwardly I know it is better to stem liberal views because they can often cause way more harm than we intuitively expect. — I like sushi
But the question: Do you believe it is possible for future generations of humans to become more moral by comparison to the morality of humans today? — javra
Have I in anyway managed to cover this question to your satisfaction? I doubt I have! Feel free to reform it in some way as I cannot possibly begin to answer it without writing a few thousand words. — I like sushi
But the question: Do you believe it is possible for future generations of humans to become more moral by comparison to the morality of humans today? — javra
Jordan Peterson has an interesting opinion on that:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cIDopS5C1Ck
A wallflower guy might benefit from some training in narcissistic psychopathy, you know, sort of to balance him out a bit.
In other words, don't be too nice. — Tarskian
But I do not find the truism of this just affirmed maxim to then indicate that one should not hold good intentions to begin with. — javra
Is the morality of humans as a whole only something that can either get worse or remain the same for all time yet to come or, else, can it improve relative to its present day and past manifestations?
If this doesn’t help, we might well be dealing with disagreements regarding any number of underlying metaphysical issues, such as with the metaphysical issue of whether morality is relative or not. In other words, if the good is something we make up as we go or else is something universal to all sentience. And I’ll back away from any such discussion for the time being. — javra
I am a moral sceptic. I can pretend to believe this or that for the sake of an argument but in this case it is pretty hard to respond more without getting bogged down.
I am convinced we can move beyond the current 'moral' paradigm. What that would mean to anyone else if I could explain better I am unsure. — I like sushi
It would take a great deal of benevolence to make up for the bilge he gets paid for spewing out into the public discourse. — Vera Mont
It's possible. I've proved this on several occasions. Their public output is how they want to be known by other people. His public output is toxic assholity. I'm just fulfilling his express desire by expressing the reaction he's worked so hard to elicit.I don't think its possible to call someone an asshole from their public output, unless its criminal/socially criminal. — AmadeusD
I'm not privy to any of that. I hope his god takes it into account.Far from it. Just one eg... He's an incredibly effective therapist and his general self-help stuff is honestly really, really really good for our times, and for hte crisis he's trying to address in mostly men. — AmadeusD
I believe you are advocating for Piecemeal rather than Utopian Engineering? — I like sushi
Knowing what a place looks like and having a roadmap to it are separate ideas. I know what it looks like to me; i know how it works for everyone. I know you can't get there from here by pieces or meals or revolutions or engineering.t seems you are more or less Piecemeal then rather than having any explicit idea of what utopia would look like let alone laying out any particular roadmap for it. — I like sushi
I know what it looks like to me;i know how it works for everyone. — Vera Mont
How can you say how your vision works for everyone? — I like sushi
There you again, confusing needs and wants. We all need the same things, adjusted for size and level of activity, and we don't have to know in advance what everyone wants. People are capable of expressing their desires and aspirations; they're capable of reciprocity and of co-operating on community projects. All they require from their society is freedom to pursue those aspirations - so long as they don't harm the environment or restrict other people's freedom.Is that not like stating you know what everyone want. — I like sushi
Some people make a strenuous and sustained effort to misconstrue and contend, I suppose because that's what they want. Some people seek clarity and consensus, because that's what they want. The world is big enough for both kinds of personality and many more besides.I am guessing not, but you can probably see how easily this can be misconstrued. — I like sushi
It's a theory. You can't get there from here without climbing over a whole lot of rubble.It is just a fantasy, yes? — I like sushi
By the fact that it's not my vision alone: it's a distillation of historical information about social arrangements that were stable and equitable, of 2000 years of European folk tales and songs and of the yearning of utopian literature through the centuries. — Vera Mont
We all need the same things, adjusted for size and level of activity, and we don't have to know in advance what everyone wants. — Vera Mont
Some people make a strenuous and sustained effort to misconstrue and contend, I suppose because that's what they want. — Vera Mont
It's a theory. You can't get there from here without climbing over a whole lot of rubble. — Vera Mont
What would you die without? So would everyone else. What would you die from? So would everyone else. Supply the first group of elements and eliminate the second. Maslow proposed a good starting point.The question is still left open about how you know what everyone needs? — I like sushi
A hoped-for destination, yes. So you have a criterion for judging each proposed step - is this getting us closer to the desired outcome or veering off in some other direction? Each legislation, each reform, each legal decision, each commercial transaction, each building construction, each technological innovation moves us toward or away from peace, health and comfort.You oppose 'social engineering,' as do I to a degree, yet seem to hold some form of it in your head as you have a theory (a vision to work toward) — I like sushi
It's not that. I haven't called for revolution or a philosopher-king with unlimited power. The way things stand, I'd rather see a supercomputer in charge than the motley collection of humans who run things now. But my main contention is that the way things are can't keep standing very much longer. Tipping points loom hither and yon.I think it is safe to say we are both opposed to "smashing eggs to make an omelet." — I like sushi
What would you die without? So would everyone else. What would you die from? So would everyone else. — Vera Mont
I think it is safe to say we are both opposed to "smashing eggs to make an omelet."
— I like sushi
It's not that. I haven't called for revolution or a philosopher-king with unlimited power. The way things stand, I'd rather see a supercomputer in charge than the motley collection of humans who run things now. But my main contention is that the way things are can't keep standing very much longer. Tipping points loom hither and yon. — Vera Mont
Is there enough air for everyone to breathe? Is there enough clean water for everyone to drink and wash in? Is there enough food for everyone to be nourished? Is there enough shelter for everyone to be warm and dry? I don't see the problem -- except that a few people take a hundred or thousand or million times as much as they need, piss in the pool, and leave the other people to fight over whatever's left.The problem lies in the application and logistics. — I like sushi
I'm not for or against it. I haven't been and will not be instrumental in the events; I have not been and will not be consulted in the matter. I see people stacking eggs on top of eggs on top of eggs and I predict that the stacks will topple over and the eggs will break.You are for "smashing eggs" then? — I like sushi
Pain isn't a constant and it isn't just something physical that the nervous system tells from our body. It's what we feel it to be. Heck, even boredom can be painful. Besides, if you ever haven't felt pain, how can you know what it is. Ask yourself, how many of us have experienced real hunger. The human can go without eating for days. How many of us have gone out without eating for days? Not many. So what on Earth do we know about real hunger, about what starvation feels like?What would Joy feel like without pain, what would riches mean without poverty or what would health mean without sickness. What would life mean without death?
To live in a society where we were incapable of experiencing such things as unhappiness, sadness, pain would be the same as being colour blind to the complete palette of human emotion of what truly makes us human. — kindred
Is there enough air for everyone to breathe? Is there enough clean water for everyone to drink and wash in? Is there enough food for everyone to be nourished? Is there enough shelter for everyone to be warm and dry? I don't see the problem -- except that a few people take a hundred or thousand or million times as much as they need, piss in the pool, and leave the other people to fight over whatever's left. — Vera Mont
In my opinion, the only thing holding a utopian society back the actual viability, which primarily depends on perfect individuals. — Igitur
I can’t imagine that goal would mean more freedom to the people. — Igitur
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