How would you respond? — Art48

I think a better way to phrase that is "How would you proceed?".

Not a Christian so I won't answer.

OK. Edited. "proceed" it is.

Here’s a thought experiment for Christians. — Art48

I'm not a Christian, except by cultural heritage. But moving on...

...that Christianity is false. Suppose you came to believe that Jesus was just a man. — Art48

These are two very different questions. but let me ask you, are you "just a man"?

I assume that Jesus was just a man, but most men are not still thought about two millennia later so that "just" is having to work rather hard and looks a bit suspect. Hitler too was 'just a man'.

Nazism is false; Christianity is not. Do you want to even think about or discuss what it means to love your enemies or die for another's sins? And can such things be "false"?

I suppose I am still a Christian, though I have not been to church for a long, long time. Thinking of Jesus as a man makes no difference. His teachings are important. So, number 4.

Thinking of Jesus as just a man like anybody else makes you nothing because that is not a particular belief or worldview. To be Christian, you need to believe that Jesus Christ is divine and died for us. Mormons aren't Christian, neither are Kardecists.

Yes, I am being restrictive. Words have meaning.

But as I suspected this thread won't get a few real replies if at all. There aren't really any active outspoken Christians here.

To be Christian, you need to believe that Jesus Christ is divine and died for us — Lionino

Unitarian Christians?

Modern Unitarians are as Christian as Mormons, which are not. Ancient unitarians are something else, which why we don't simply call them "Christian", but a modifier comes before.

Modern Unitarians are as Christian as Mormons, which are not. Ancient unitarians are something else, which why we don't simply call them "Christian", but a modifier comes before. — Lionino

I'm inclined to leave arguing about who is truly a Christian, to those who want to call themselves Christians. It's not as if there exists some essence of True Christian.

It's not as if there exists some essence of True Christian. — wonderer1

There is no essence of redness, yet we are not calling yellow "red", even if it is closer to red than blue is.

I'm somewhat of a Christian but I'll still answer.

I'd stick to classical theism in the Abrahamic tradition. That would leave me with either Judaism or Islam. I suspect many Christians become Muslims under this thought experiment. At least in Islam he is a prophet.

To be Christian, you need to believe that Jesus Christ is divine and died for us. Mormons aren't Christian, neither are Kardecists. — Lionino

wait, but Mormons believe both of those things (can't say I know about the Kardashians though).

From the horses mouth:

Mormons believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose again so that all humankind could be resurrected and one day return to live with a loving Heavenly Father.

https://ph.churchofjesuschrist.org/do-mormons-believe-in-jesus-christ#:~:text=Mormons%20believe%20that%20Jesus%20Christ%20died%20on%20the%20cross%20and,sacrifice%2C%20a%20lamb%20without%20blemish.

We believe Jesus is the Son of God the Father and as such inherited powers of godhood and divinity from His Father

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/what-mormons-believe-about-jesus-christ

Believing those two is not enough to make you a Christian.

the way you presented it it seemed like thats what you were saying. if it's not, what are you saying?

the way you presented it it seemed like thats what you were saying — flannel jesus

I guess that is true.

if it's not, what are you saying? — flannel jesus

I said believing Jesus (not you) was not divine makes you not a Christian. Also that Mormons aren't Christian.

and why aren't they?

It is simply wholesale a different religion. Compare any church, even protestant ones, to their Mormon temples, you can tell then and there they are not the same. A spin-off of Christianity, sure, but not Christianity.

I don't know why exactly they call themselves Christian, but I have a few things in mind.

It also feels vulgar to include Mormonism into Christianity. The latter has centuries of sophisticated and curated thought building its tradition, the former is dumb as soon as you bat an eye on it.

But to their credit, the temples do look amazing, much better than what current western architecture has been putting out (mostly geometric abortions made of stone).

It's really, really weird that you'd list two reasons to disqualify a religion from being christian, and then say mormons aren't christian, and NOT mean "they aren't christian for this reason". I'm still mind-boggled by that. It's like you're trying to be misunderstood.

Everything you said in this most recent post seems very wishy washy. "They aren't christian because I don't feel like it". That's how it comes across.

I'm still mind-boggled by that. — flannel jesus

I am not god to be flawless. But besides that, if the two were connected, I would put an em dash between the two, not a period, to show that the two I brought up are supposed to be examples of what is said before. Since the two sentences are thematically connected, I left them in the same paragraph.

"They aren't christian because I don't feel like it" — flannel jesus

Religion isn't science, so that is not a bad thing. It doesn't seem like you have looked a lot into Mormonism. If you do, you will see how they are not Christian any more than Muslims are.

It doesn't seem like you have looked a lot into Mormonism. — Lionino

I know more about Mormonism than most Mormons do.

But besides that, if the two were connected, I would put an em dash between the two, not a period — Lionino

That's not how most people use punctuation - they can string together related thoughts within a paragraph, separated by periods; that's normal.

Suppose you somehow became convinced that Christianity is false. — Art48

Raised & educated by strict Roman Catholics, I'd reach this conclusion by senior year in my Jesuit high school (though my apostasy had begun two years earlier).

Suppose you came to believe that Jesus was just a man. How would you proceed?

In the late 1970s I'd critically compared his purported teachings to that of others like Socrates, Epicurus, Buddha, Laozi, Kongzi ... who were also "just men" and had found Yeshua ben Yosef far less compelling.

What would you do?

I'd become a freethinker and naturalist / anti-supernaturalist; then had for years studied comparative religion and religious histories on my own; all the while growing more secular, even irreligious, from apostate to weak athiest to strong atheist by the mid 1990s to antitheist (with strong speculative affinities for pandeism) about two decades ago.

Make a choice and explain why.
1. This is ridiculous. Christianity IS true and that’s all there is to it. I’m not doing this silly thought experiment. Count me out. (No further explanation needed.)
2. I would become an atheist.
3. I would search for a God that isn’t false.
4. None of the above. I would do something else.

Well, as sketched above, my path had been from 4 through 3 to 2. :halo:

I know more about Mormonism than most Mormons do. — flannel jesus

I don't see how that relates to what you are replying :-P

That's not how most people use punctuation — flannel jesus

Counterpoint:

A Gallup analysis published in March 2020 looked at data collected by the U.S. Department of Education in 2012, 2014, and 2017. It found that 130 million adults in the country have low literacy skills, meaning that more than half (54%) between the ages of 16 and 74 read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level, according to a piece published in 2022 by APM Research Lab.

Considering that sixth grade over there is equivalent to fifth or fourth grade in most countries, the situation is even worse than it looks.

Matter of fact, my usage of punctuation is refined and aims for clarity. I would even say my usage is the correct usage of punctuation.

they can string together related thoughts within a paragraph, separated by periods — flannel jesus

Yes, that is what I did. Mormonism not being Christian is related to things that make one not Christian. The two are separated by a period. But Mormonism not being Christian is not an example of the principle of not believing in the divinity of Jesus making one not Christian (because they believe that Jesus was divine), in that case I would use em-dash.

I don't see how that relates to what you are replying — Lionino

I know an awful lot about mormonism, you're being silly.

Matter of fact, my usage of punctuation is refined and aims for clarity. — Lionino

If you don't expect people to think that you mean Mormons aren't Christian for the reason you stated, you are failing at the goal you're aiming for. By a large margin.

I know an awful lot about mormonism, you're being silly. — flannel jesus

Everybody knows an awful lot about any given topic they are talking about...

If you don't expect people to think that you mean Mormons aren't Christian for the reason you stated, you are failing at the goal you're aiming for. — flannel jesus

As I said, I am not God, not every text I produce is perfectly unambiguous; it is flattering however that hold me in such regard.

Everybody knows an awful lot about any given topic they are talking about... — Lionino

do you have any intention to stop being silly?

I am not being silly. This whole discussion is:

1 – you complaining about your misinterpretation of my post.
2 – saying you know a lot about Mormonism.

you said it doesn't seem like i know a lot about mormonism. I'm not just saying it randomly, YOU brought up the topic of how much I know about mormonism. You're incorrect about how much I know about mormonism.

You are being silly. You aren't giving any coherent arguments about why mormonism isn't christian. You're just saying a bunch of other random silly stuff.

YOU brought up the topic of how much I know about mormonism — flannel jesus

And just stating "I know a lot about Mormonism" while being clueless as to why someone would say Mormonism isn't Christian, something that is agreed by every Christian denomination, helps you prove me wrong?

What are you talking about?

You haven't made an argument that they're not christian. Your failure to make an argument proves you wrong, not what i know.

If you had a coherent argument to make, you'd have made it by now. Instead you blather on with silliness. You're not correct.