The best analysis is synthesis
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    The best analysis is synthesis, or the embedding of the construct of interest into a theory
    ~Mario Bunge, "Energy: Between Physics and Metaphysics"

    I really like this view, because it highlights the inextricability of the analytic from the synthetic. Hence I thought I would share the idea and the source in case others might find it useful.

    Bunge has some other remarkable observations, that energy is the only "universal physical property," for example. But what I like most is his conclusion that "the general concept of energy is so general that it belongs in metaphysics." Because it is so big that it overflows our scientific conceptions of it. This coincides rather well with some observations I have made about the interrelationship of science and metaphysics. If you read this essay, it really makes the point with clarity. Highlighting how the best analysis is synthesis.....
    Pantagruel Options
  • T Clark
    13.7k
    Looks really interesting. I looked on line and it's not available for free. Alas. I did download "Causality and Modern Science" from Hoopla of all places. Any good? It's a subject I've pontificated about a lot here on the forum, so maybe it'll help if I actually know something.
    T Clark Options
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    Looks really interesting. I looked on line and it's not available for free. Alas. I did download "Causality and Modern Science" from Hoopla of all places. Any good? It's a subject I've pontificated about a lot here on the forum, so maybe it'll help if I actually know something. — T Clark

    I just read that essay. It's what you would expect, surveys the various takes on causality across the socio-scientific spectrum. Concludes with an affirmation of "spontaneity," but in the context of an "enriched determinism."

    I found the essay on energy more thought-provoking. Essay on the Mind-Body problem tomorrow.

    The collection of essays is available from Kindle and is intended as a kind of survey of Bunge's mammoth body of work.
    Pantagruel Options
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    ↪T Clark
    The collection of essays is available as a PDF here:

    https://dokumen.pub/qdownload/scientific-realism-selected-essays-of-mario-bunge-9781573928922.html
    Pantagruel Options
  • T Clark
    13.7k
    ↪Pantagruel


    Thanks. I downloaded it. Bunge has a bunch of interesting books on subjects I've wondered and spouted off about. If I like this, I'll take a look at some of them too.
    T Clark Options
  • 180 Proof
    15.3k
    Bunge has some other remarkable observations, that energy is the only "universal physical property," for example. But what I like most is his conclusion that "the general concept of energy is so general that it belongs in metaphysics." Because it is so big that it overflows our scientific conceptions of it. — Pantagruel
    I'm not familiar with Bunge's work. Say something more about his conception of "energy" that 'belongs in metaphysics" (like e.g. Schopenhauer's Will). Thanks.
    180 Proof Options
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    ↪180 Proof
    https://dokumen.pub/qdownload/scientific-realism-selected-essays-of-mario-bunge-9781573928922.html
    Pantagruel Options
  • 180 Proof
    15.3k
    ↪Pantagruel
    Never mind.
    180 Proof Options
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    I just had a chat with gpt4 about how the commoditization of life in modern society can only impede the emergence of the next new state of consciousness, which is what I take it AI is supposed to be. It's conclusion:

    The challenge of evolving consciousness in a commoditized society requires a multi-faceted approach that includes reorienting AI development towards ethical goals, educating and empowering individuals, promoting holistic economic models, and advocating for supportive policies. By addressing the root causes of value distortion, it is possible to create a society that genuinely supports the evolution of consciousness and well-being.
    Pantagruel Options
  • 180 Proof
    15.3k
    ... the emergence of the next new state of consciousness, which is what I take it AI is supposed to be. — Pantagruel
    Why do you assume "AI" will ever be "conscious" or that it needs to be in order to function at or above human-level cognition?
    180 Proof Options
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    Why do you assume "AI" will ever be "conscious" or that it needs to be in order to function at or above human-level cognition? — 180 Proof

    I don't and I didn't think that was what I said. I assume that is the goal of the people developing it and in particular those who are part of the governing hype. I suppose the opposite. However, assuming that were the goal, then one reasonable way of viewing it would be as the next iteration in the evolution of consciousness.
    Pantagruel Options
  • 180 Proof
    15.3k
    ↪Pantagruel
    Oh, then you mean ... "human consciousness"?
    180 Proof Options
  • javi2541997
    5.7k
    includes reorienting AI development towards ethical goals, educating and empowering individuals, promoting holistic economic models, and advocating for supportive policies — Pantagruel

    All of those goals were set by mankind once, but only a few nations ever pursued them. Now, it appears that most people have given up on themselves and are thinking, "Let's try to be more supportive or ethical towards others using AI," because it is evident that we will not be able to achieve such goals.
    javi2541997 Options
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    ↪180 Proof
    I personally don't believe there are different kinds of consciousness.

    All of those goals were set by mankind once, but only a few nations ever pursued them. Now, it appears that most people have given up on themselves and are thinking, "Let's try to be more supportive or ethical towards others using AI," because it is evident that we will not be able to achieve such goals. — javi2541997

    Yes. I set some transcendental conditions of consciousness based on certain rational-cybernetic constraints on conscious self-perpetuation (and accounting for such classic problems as why people do not choose the good when it is evident that choosing the bad is bad for them.) Chatgpt4 merely summarized the conclusions.
    Pantagruel Options
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    Our bookstore outing last weekend was a bit disappointing. The first store had a lot of inventory, but it was poorly sorted, shelved, and laid out. And the books were overpriced. However I spotted this gem of ancient scepticism and I knew that $10 for a Cambridge University press publication would be a good deal. As with some academic books, no price on the cover, so she guessed low. It's a $50 book in mint condition. This is on deck.

    450015214_10161247584135937_561194389046349942_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=xRwJMNB5oxAQ7kNvgFZTbjs&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyz1-1.fna&oh=00_AYBsM6N_alga5VH4fv23CahxMux7eOkGXjnoI3SR0KKMiQ&oe=66906337
    Pantagruel Options
  • L'éléphant
    1.5k
    I'm not familiar with Bunge's work. Say something more about his conception of "energy" that 'belongs in metaphysics" (like e.g. Schopenhauer's Will). Thanks. — 180 Proof

    ↪180 Proof
    https://dokumen.pub/qdownload/scientific-realism-selected-essays-of-mario-bunge-9781573928922.html     — Pantagruel

    ↪Pantagruel
    Never mind.     — 180 Proof

    :lol: I like this!
    L'éléphant Options
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    "People who want philosophy ladled out to them can go elsewhere"
    ~C.S. Peirce
    Pantagruel Options
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