Israel does not indiscriminately target all Palestinians; Hamas will consider all Israelis legitimate targets for violence/death/kidnapping/rape. — BitconnectCarlos

Indeed, they don't bomb the West Bank as much as Gaza.

But if we just look at Gaza, it's another thing. Have you looked at the amounts of bombs used and the amount of buildings destroyed? Quite comparable to WW2 terror bombings.

(AP) Jan 11th 2024, The Israeli military campaign in Gaza, experts say, now sits among the deadliest and most destructive in recent history.

In just over two months, researchers say the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II. It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group.

You simply cannot talk of an attempt to avoid civilian casualties. And after all, when the Gazan's elected Hamas years ago, aren't they as one Israeli politician put it, all are culpable? Or as another put it, It's the evil city.

And let's remember what the Israeli Defense minister said:

“We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly,” Gallant said.

While it appears that Gallant was specifically referring to Hamas fighters in that comment, the rest of the minister’s remarks called for further oppression of all people in Gaza by denying them basic human needs.

“We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza,” Gallant said. “There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything will be closed.”

Seems indeed that the Israelis are true to their word.

Then who does represent the Jewish people here? Ask someone in a neighbouring state who represents the Jewish people here?

Or do we have a vacuum of leadership/representation of the Jewish people? — Punshhh

Who represents the Protestants? Or the Muslims? Does the President of Iran represent the Shia and are all Shias answerable for his actions?

It would be more helpful to answer the question. It is directly relevant to an assertion you made that seems unreasonable to the rest of us.

The examples you gave aren't relevant. They are religions with various sects. We're talking about one particular state, which is geopolitically homogenous.

Which assertion in particular?

Judaism is also a religion with various sects/denominations. Within those sects/denominations there is leadership/authorities.

We're talking about one particular state, which is geopolitically homogenous. — AmadeusD

Really hard to think you're not choosing to ignore some really critical points in your replies.

Israel has a diversity of parties in its Parliament and has Arab muslims represented on its judiciary as well. Israel has a considerable minority arab muslim population as well as christians and druze.

Fully agreed. Im unsure how that changes that Netanyahu is the official, globally recognized representative of the State of Israel(which is what's being posited is at fault - not hte religion Judaism).

My point was directed to Punshhh who stated that Netanyahu represents the Jewish people.

It was a direct reply to me - so, with some jest, forgive me for taking it as aimed at me LOL.

And, per my response, Netanyahu DOES represent the Jewish people. Those descended from the tribes of Israel, generally, support Netanyahu and if we're going to get even MORE specific, religious Jews are almost entirely in support - Only secular Jews present a minority support

Please note: "The survey was conducted during a previous wave of protests against judicial reform..." so can be read as probably slightly less accurate, in a way that supports the contention.

The vast majority of world Jewry did not vote for Netanyahu. There is a dangerous phenomenon emerging where Jews across the world are being targeted simply for being Jews due to this idea that Netanyahu represents all Jews.

But 85-90% of Jews are zionists and zionism is heavily embedded in Jewish culture. Jews will fight for their state because they're all too familiar with what happens without one.

I cordially step away.

Who represents the Protestants? Or the Muslims? Does the President of Iran represent the Shia and are all Shias answerable for his actions?

You are equivocating a people with a religious movement. I said the Jewish people. This is a racial group, it just happens to correspond also to the members of the Jewish religious group, but I was not referring to the members of the Jewish religious group, but to the racial group.

Who other than Netanyahu speaks for the Jewish people and to be more pertinent, who conducts foreign policy, provides security for this group? Because there is a serious failure of leadership here.

Listen… ehm… brilliant Cybersecurity Compliance (as in compliance with the law) graduate, US Navy Intelligence Community genius, past time law superhero, in other words… dude, for being one who claims to understand words and not ignore them, you most certainly seem to not understand or to ignore mine. So I’ll repeat them, again, for the last time: if you want to score points with me give me IHL experts’ sources, ONG legals sources, Palestinian/Hamas sources arguing that Israel is using its civilians as human shields by occupying Israel land wherever they are. Until then the only loophole I see is in your fallacious appeal to irrelevant titles, anecdotes and question-begging ad hominem. Don’t come empty handed at the next round, ok?

:ok:

You are equivocating a people with a religious movement. I said the Jewish people. This is a racial group, it just happens to correspond also to the members of the Jewish religious group, but I was not referring to the members of the Jewish religious group, but to the racial group.

Who other than Netanyahu speaks for the Jewish people and to be more pertinent, who conducts foreign policy, provides security for this group? — Punshhh

Judaism is both a religion and a people, but not a race. One can't convert to a race, but one can convert to Judaism.

Who speaks for black people? Who speaks for the Arabs? No one has appointed Netanyahu "spokesperson for the Jews."

Personally I'd have a hard time living by a "master morality" that values noble birth, physical strength/size... if you have a disability in that society or you're of low birth or God forbid both you're just kinda fucked. You ever see 300? I can hardly blame that cripple for betraying the Spartans. What is his role in that society?

Judaism has a nice mix of slave and master elements to it imo. It is Christ who goes full throttle slave morality. There is something quite terrifying and powerful about slave morality. But the Church has tempered Christ's original message.

If the objectivity part of Judaism is what supposedly leads to hate and resentment then there's no need to single it out among the Abrahamics... Christianity and Islam contain objective claims as well as well as many other religious systems.

Israel has a diversity of parties in its Parliament and has Arab muslims represented on its judiciary as well. Israel has a considerable minority arab muslim population as well as christians and druze. — BitconnectCarlos

...and then has the occupied territories, where non-Jewish people are have different laws (military law) to the Jewish people there. In addition to that, it has laws like the 'Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law', which prohibits inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza Strip ineligible for the automatic granting of Israeli citizenship and residency permits that are usually available through marriage to an Israeli citizen (i.e., family reunification).

But South Africa was too a democracy under the Apartheid era... to the whites.

Netanyahu tells US it opposes a Palestinian state. From the river to the sea it will be a Jewish national state: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/netanyahu-tells-us-opposes-palestinian-state-after-gaza-war

"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is considered a statement of genocide by the Israeli propaganda machine. So we know what this means.

We already knew this of course but then this further underlines the Likud intent (as we know from their charter) and it's out in the open in MSM.

I on the other hand simply pull up the law and throw basic reading comprehension in your face — Vaskane

But I questioned your basic reading comprehension of the letter of the law too. And the fact that you didn't realize it, it is pretty telling about your basic reading comprehension skills. Dude.

Judaism is both a religion and a people, but not a race. One can't convert to a race, but one can convert to Judaism.

The difference here is that Judaism is an ideology, a lifestyle. The Jewish people are a genealogical group, a biological lineage.
It’s not complicated, this equivocation is often encountered in relation to Jews.

Who speaks for black people? Who speaks for the Arabs? No one has appointed Netanyahu "spokesperson for the Jews."

A black, or Arabic leader from a black, or Arabic country would step forward and speak.

Who speaks for the Jewish people, who is leading now that a Country of Jewish people is under threat and has been taken to the International Criminal court?

A weird decision-making process from Iran. They are losing face over not engaging Israel as Hamas is destroyed and getting into it with the US and UK (and potentially the rest of the world given they keep hitting even their ostensible allies' shipping) via Yemen, but then they bomb Iraq and Pakistan, provoking a counter attack by Pakistan.

Iraq makes some sense, because they've already been fighting with their Kurdish population, up to using artillery on their own cities in a few incidents, but they have also had a growing rift with Iraqi Shia, and this won't help that. The Pakistan choice is even more strange, especially since they were trading fire with the Taliban earlier in 2023 and have an insurgency with their Azeri population. It seems like flailing.

provoking a counter attack by Pakistan. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Beware that both Pakistan and Iran are attacking each others' sides of Belochistan. A chaos land where anti-regime terrorists and drug/arm smugglers of both sides can hide.

10,000 children killed so far.

10,000.

But Israel isn’t a terrorist state. Hamas hasn’t killed nearly as many children, but their real problem is PR: when they murder, they do it wrong. If only they learned to call it “accidental” and “defensive,” or maybe justified it by saying “those are the breaks— Dresden, Hiroshima, collateral damage, blah blah”. Then I suppose Israeli war crime apologists would be just fine with it. Too bad.

They need to hire better publicists.

Meanwhile, 10,000 Palestinian children have been murdered by Israel. And counting.

Judaism is an ethnicity... it's an ethno-religion. It accepts converts but does not actively seek them out. There are many different sects.

Would be Assad or Raisi be representative for Arabs? When Assad kills 500,000 of his own people does that represent Arabs around the world? Netanyahu is the head of state in Israel and nothing more. He is not a rabbi. He holds no religious post. Jews are not blameworthy through his actions.

...and then has the occupied territories, where non-Jewish people are have different laws (military law) to the Jewish people there. In addition to that, it has laws like the 'Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law', which prohibits inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza Strip ineligible for the automatic granting of Israeli citizenship and residency permits that are usually available through marriage to an Israeli citizen (i.e., family reunification).

But South Africa was too a democracy under the Apartheid era... to the whites. — ssu

"Occupied territories" is itself a misnomer. It implies the palestinians are entitled to 100% of the west bank which is a ridiculous idea. Is it non-Jewish people or non-Israeli citizens? My understanding is that Christians and Jews tend to get by the checkpoints better while palestinian muslims are held up at the checkpoints. In the WB Israelis are under Israeli law and Palestinians are under the law of the PA so yes the rules are different. There were fewer checkpoints before the intifatas and violence. Just today or yesterday the IDF did an operation in Tulkarm in the WB and found 400 explosives. It would be ridiculous to treat Israeli civilians like Palestinian ones security-wise.

Israeli arabs have equal rights under Israeli law. They are represented in government and hold high places across the society. Given that Jews were ethnically cleansed across the arab world ("judenrein"), what do you think of the comparison between the arab world and nazism?

Were black south african allowed to vote under apartheid? did they have political representation? the apartheid comparison is ridiculous.

↪neomac
Yeah, but the main difference discovered, between you and I, being that you're incapable of basic reading comprehension, but rather need others to tell you what to believe. — Vaskane

Sure, I need IHL experts to tell me what IHL experts think about "human shields" and IHL laws, if that's what I'm interested in. And I'm interested in their interpretation because it has legal effects, your interpretation is just an intellectual fart which you should be ashamed of, not brag about. Your "basic reading comprehension" skills are poor reading comprehension skills, and make IHL laws not only contradictory and paradoxical, but also it betrays the spirit of the law of war which permits civilian casualties under certain circumstances, and not solicit it.

Yesterday, I received a disturbing email from my Senator (the less crazy of two from Texas):

Anti-Israeli rhetoric has spread like wildfire across social media. It's taken root on elite college campuses and even in some parts of Congress.

This past weekend, we saw the latest chapter in ‘blaming the victim’ as protesters gathered in our nation’s Capital to demand a ceasefire in Gaza.

They carried signs that said, ‘Free Palestine,’ and ‘Let Gaza live.’ They accused Israel of being an apartheid government and outrageously went so far as to say the United States was supporting genocide.

I find it deeply disturbing to see this view shared by so many because it's completely divorced from reality. These protesters have the entire problem completely backward.

Hamas is not a victim. Hamas is the aggressor in every possible sense, along with its state sponsor, Iran.

But war is not just a battle of brute force – it's also a contest for public opinion.

Hamas goes to great lengths to shift the narrative and build sympathy, and it’s deeply disappointing to see how many Hamas sympathizers are trying to gloss over the truth.

We have a responsibility to call out and correct the falsehoods that are spreading across our country. We have a responsibility to make sure the American people understand who is the aggressor and who is the victim.

We have a duty to stand with our ally Israel as it roots out terrorism, just as so many stood with us on 9/11 when we were in Israel’s shoes.

For Texas,
John [Cornyn]

"Occupied territories" is itself a misnomer. It implies the palestinians are entitled to 100% of the west bank which is a ridiculous idea. — BitconnectCarlos

That is exactly the point and not a misnomer. Israel has zero rights there.

I don't know whether states can have rights, but there has been a continual Jewish presence in the WB since antiquity which ought to live under Jewish governance. Jewish roots and claims in that land go back thousands of years and Jews refuse to be dhimmis or ethnically cleansed under Arab rule.

Where are the ancient Palestinian claims to that land?

Yes, states can have rights and obligations. It's a thing called sovereignty. I didn't say the Jewish presence had to leave, although every illegal settler should.