It didn't exist even one day before Yellow Emperor. — YiRu Li

What existed before the Yellow Emperor?

What existed before the Yellow Emperor? — Beverley

Supposedly no unified China, just a collection of tribes, afaik.

What existed before the Yellow Emperor? — Beverley

Other older civilizations.
Chinese migrated from older civilizations.
If we study Chinese civilization, we will find out it's a reformation based on older civilizations.
Many issues in older civilizations got reformed in Chinese civilization.
Chinese need to study western and older civilizations, in order to understand Chinese civilizations.

Supposedly no unified China, just a collection of tribes, afaik. — Lionino

For this we can google Yellow Emperor.
When we know the Yellow Emperor, we also can see what China that land looked like.

I don't want this to appear as if there is some bias against Chinese culture or traditions. My only point is that the information that is passed down in any culture is passed down for a variety of reasons, and the scientific accuracy of the account is not necessarily one of them. I do also recognize that some cultures value their traditions more than others, while within some it is part of the tradition to challenge the culture.

Chinese history has a very strong civilization and culture supports the truth.
But if other countries don't have that similar civilization and culture, I can't say the truth in history is there. — YiRu Li

What makes you think any one culture has more or less truth than any other? Chinese chroniclers can't embellish, exaggerate, concentrate on one aspect of time while ignoring another? Ever hear of the cult of Chairman Mao? The whole China derail seems to me irrelevant to a current discussion.

I thought I already identified 'inequality' as
e.g. good <-> evil, rich <-> poor, beautiful <-> ugly, young <-> old, high <-> low, correct <-> wrong, have <-> not have, strong <-> weak, left <-> right, subjective <-> objective, absolute <-> relative, Life <-> Death — YiRu Li

This makes no sense in any measure of equality that I've ever encountered. It's a list of equal opposites. Among what or whom are you seeking equality - and what kind of equality? Or do you mean similarity?
An apple from the grocery store is equal to a car in some ways, unequal in others. Two apples from the grocery store are also unequal in some ways, to some degree. None of the examples are opposites and none are alive.

The whole China derail seems to me irrelevant to a current discussion. — Vera Mont

Maybe somehow meaningful to our discussion.
Because Chinese civilization is from western and all other older civilizations.
The Chinese race itself is a big mix of all other races.
So our discussion may be related to all other civilizations.
Maybe somehow older knowledge was lost in other places, but got recorded in Chinese civilization.

So our discussion may be related to all other civilizations. — YiRu Li

But how is it related to the OP?

But how is it related to the OP? — Vera Mont

This we may need to ask Hanover, Lionino, Beverley, Tom Storm.
Maybe they see something we don't see.

Other older civilizations.
Chinese migrated from older civilizations. — YiRu Li

As a small contribution, the word civilization implies a few things, such as written language. There were other societies before Chinese society of course, but none of them that we know would be classified as civilisation, as they had no written record.

This we may need to ask Hanover, Lionino, Beverley, Tom Storm. — YiRu Li

I'm asking you, since you introduced both subjects and have not, as far as I can tell, given comprehensible answers to questions about either.

As a small contribution, the word civilization implies a few things, such as written language. There were other societies before Chinese society of course, but none of them that we know would be classified as civilisation, as they had no written record. — Lionino

I do hear historians say when they study no word society, they will reference Chinese records.
Because the Chinese recorded those no word societies.
e.g. The Chinese record everything along the silk road.
Chinese even record what they looked like, eg. white skin, blue eyes, blond hair...

The selfish gene. In nature, animals that have some advantage over others of their species succeed at living longer and having more offspring than the others. This means that their [aggressive, ambitious] genes are passed on to more new members of the species. This is offset by the need to fit into a social group for the survival of those offspring, so that friendly and co-operative genes are also passed on. In humans, both traits are present and the notorious big brain serves both - not in the same proportion in each specimen. Everyone desires some advantage, some way to be better, smarter, faster, stronger, more talented, more charming or more beautiful than others of of our species. But we're not all willing to pay the same price or make the same amount of effort or take the same risks to achieve it. — Vera Mont

I think I can use your case with Socrates' death to describe equality.
When Socrates had a higher value 'dignity', that he wanted to accomplish.
He measured life and death before his death.
He thought death means going to a new place,
being born to the earth is also going to a new place.
He saw life as equal to death.
It was not that important to trace life but lose his dignity.

Also from your case,
If a person has a higher value like 'dignity' they want to pursue.
They may see 'better than others' is not that important to them, if they need to cheat to win a game.
For dignity, 'win a game' is playing a game, 'lose a game' is playing a game.
'Win<->Lose' here is the same for them.
Because they are all 'playing a game'.

So our discussion may be related to all other civilizations.
— YiRu Li

But how is it related to the OP? — Vera Mont

You are right!
Our history discussion let us find out the Chinese record is for all the civilizations and races.
Chinese itself is a big mix from all other civilizations and races.
Other societies that didn't have words also used Chinese to record things.
We are from the same source.
There is no inequality between nation or race or civilization in Chinese records.

Finding out 'We are from the same source', is another way to see things are equal.

The Identity of Contraries!

I added this 'The Identity of Contraries' in our OP.
This is the philosophy we need to figure out.

It's the philosophy thinking practice which is used in Chinese medicine to maintain a peaceful and concentrated mind.
It also can apply in our career or life difficulties. eg. disadvantage, addiction and mental ill health...
I heard many philosophers already use this 'The Identity of Contraries' way to discuss questions.

What makes you think any one culture has more or less truth than any other? Chinese chroniclers can't embellish, exaggerate, concentrate on one aspect of time while ignoring another? Ever hear of the cult of Chairman Mao? The whole China derail seems to me irrelevant to a current discussion. — Vera Mont

If the society is extremely unequal.
e.g. human sacrifice, slavery, bad government.
All these happened sometimes in Chinese history.
We can find out the cheating records through investigation.

We already discussed how 'inequality' will generate 'dishonesty'.
I only checked 5,000 years of Chinese history. I can prove it.
Chinese society is always sometimes good, sometimes bad.
We have many records to compare each different time.

Uh-hu

What makes you think any one culture has more or less truth than any other? Chinese chroniclers can't embellish, exaggerate, concentrate on one aspect of time while ignoring another? Ever hear of the cult of Chairman Mao? The whole China derail seems to me irrelevant to a current discussion. — Vera Mont

In another case, if a history can survive, it already means it's true.
Because in history, those cheating people were lazy to make wrong records, they just destroyed all the records.
The most famous case in China is our first emperor, Qin Shi Huang.
His ’Burning of books and burying of scholars‘ destroyed almost 3,000 years of books before him.
His goal was just wanting everyone stupid, so people would not be against him.

Will you tell your kids or students the wrong things? — YiRu Li

Not sure what you mean with this question but we all pass on incorrect information, prejudices, bigotries and dubious values to children and students all the time. Often we don't know we are doing this. And families often suppress secrets and scandals from each other, particularly the children.

Sometimes the parents and teachers went through wars or countless difficult times, but they still did their best to keep the knowledge and passed it to their kids and students. — YiRu Li

Such knowledge is generally a mix of facts, subjective values, myths and the usual prejudices of time and place.

Are there any westerner ancestors who passed things to your generation nowadays and you know it is valuable? — YiRu Li

I don't use this frame of reference. But obviously we have cultural, political and social practices and values we have inherited, some of which are valued. Including values themselves. But as a principle, I don't revere anything based on tradition. Much of what we inherit from previous generations is not valuable - things like misogyny, homophobia, colonisation, various approaches to capitalism.

Good points!

Colonialism is not totally a bad thing.
The Chinese girls' Foot binding for 1,000 years ended because of Colonialism.

Since our discussion is related to Chinese medicine and philosophy (Daoism and other western
or eastern branches).
We can use our own body to try and feel it, if we figure out the philosophy ' The Identity of Contraries'.
Indeed we don't need to care if it's from tradition or history or not.
It can be scientifically proven or proven by ourselves, if it works to our health or career or we can be happier.
If it doesn't work, we can return it!

The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine is the most foundation medical book in Chinese medicine for 2,000 years.
Everyone who uses Chinese medicine reads this book.
I only can quote it if I want to say something about it.

I'd take the apple in the metaphor to represent the knowledge of good and evil, distinguishing humans from the animals that lack such knowledge. I don't see the antidote is returning humans to that animal like state to where we become amoral.

If we're sticking with the metaphor, the question is how we should best respond to the serpent, which represents temptation to do evil.

That is, we know what is right and what is wrong and we have to respond by doing what is right. — Hanover

Great points!

If we take Chinese medicine that description as a clue.

Before Apple, humans were:
Simple body + Simple brain = Healthy

After Apple, humans became:
Simple body + Super complicated brain => Mental & Physical illness! The world is chaotic!

But divine beings look like they can handle super complicated knowledge and are still very healthy.

There are two possibilities here:
1. Divine beings' bodies are different.
2. Divine beings know how to think and exercise to deal with complicated knowledge in their brain.

But the human body can not be changed.
To solve the issue,
the prophets needed to teach humans how to think and exercise as the divine beings, to handle the complicated brain.
This is what you said: We should best respond to the serpent. We have to respond by doing what is right.
This is the antidote.

e.g. The philosophy about dealing with inequality - The Identity of Contraries; Socrates' and Plato's teachings

Also from great people's thinking as examples, the human brain can be great through thinking. We can level up our brains by correct thinking.

Article 1 All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood

UN. Universal Declaration of Human rights.

A moral equality is stipulated. It is to be understood that we are not equal in talent, physique, intelligence, inheritance, education, power, social standing, opportunity, wealth, or personal morality. Nevertheless, every individual from the lowest to the highest socially is the source of values, and as such is infinitely valuable to themselves. and this is the source of the equality that founds the moral brotherhood of man. for a Christian -

And the King shall answer and say unto them, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me — Matthew 25:40

Thus the duty of the peasant is to feed his family, and the duty of the Emperor is to feed his people, and the duty of those that have much is to look after those who have nothing. And this duty arises immediately alongside the privilege of ownership. If you expect others to respect your property rights, you need to respect their right to exist. This is called a social contract. It is a mutual arrangement for organising social living, that allows farming and thus cities and civilisation.

I offer here the most definitive, authoritative sources of the West on your topic, and my best interpretation of them, which will no doubt be disputed here.

But I will be most interested in hearing from you how this very general formulation aligns with Lao Tsu, Confucious and Maoist philosophical traditions.

Colonialism is not totally a bad thing.
The Chinese girls' Foot binding for 1,000 years ended because of Colonialism. — YiRu Li

Yeah, I guess that makes up for slavery, robbery, barbarity and genocide.

talent, physique, intelligence, inheritance, education, power, social standing, opportunity, wealth, or personal morality. Nevertheless, every individual from the lowest to the highest socially is the source of values, and as such is infinitely valuable to themselves. and this is the source of the equality that founds the moral brotherhood of man. for a Christian - — unenlightened

And given the above, for me, one of the important aspects of the Western tradition in more recent times (contested though it might be in some parts) is that the state can and has played a key role in helping to level out some of those differences by providing or subsidising medical care, education, training and housing for those less privileged citizens, particularly those on the margins.

I appreciate everyone take time to discuss history and reply that made this question clearer!

Chinese civilization loves history background check and already did it for 5,000 years.
We indeed need to talk about history for this question.

Where Chinese civilization's creator 'Yellow Emperor 'came from is a mystery.
But some archaeologists think he is Proto-Indo-Europeans.

In 'The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine',
Yellow Emperor said he heard: 
in the past, everyone lived one hundred years without showing the usual signs of aging.

Because Yellow Emperor moved to China from somewhere else,
so he must not talk about people in China.
He must talk about people in older civilization areas.

Until I watched these long life people video series,
I finally understand what 'The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine' says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP4ouNyTd0I

(in this video 30:45, 34:58, 35:50,
the Greek island people and researchers said their secret to live long & healthy is to have an equal mind and society.)
I'd guess what Yellow Emperor mentioned is Greeks.

I've put this video on the OP, so you may easily check it and find some philosophy for inequality!

----------------------------------

For thousands years, 'The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine' is always studied together with philosophy 'I Ching' (philosophy of change), Laozi ＆ Zhuang Zi (philosophy of equal).
I guess when we talk about inequality, we need to talk about 'change'?

I guess Laozi ＆ Zhuang Zi are Jews after I background checked their history.
They all lived in a city 'Kaifeng', where many Jewish merchants lived in ancient time for silk road business.
All the ancient Chinese philosophers went to 'Kaifeng' to discuss philosophy.
Li & Zhuang are also Jews' last name in Chinese.

Chinese official history says Laozi went everywhere on the silk road to teach his philosophy.
He went to India and became Buddha's teacher.
I guess Laozi is also related to Greek philosopher Thales.

We indeed need to talk about history for this question. — YiRu Li

I only wish we could have discussed the actual OP question, and with less of the cultural drum-beating.

:up:

I was not talking about Chinese medicine - I was talking about whether legends were true. E.g., People living to 100 without showing signs of aging. — Tom Storm

Great question!

Because the Yellow Emperor was talking about things before him.
Chinese words were created by his order.
I can not use Chinese history to prove history before 5,000 years.

But if the Yellow Emperor was talking about Greeks.
If I use the Bible time from Genesis 11: 10-26.
The Yellow Emperor is about The Tower of Babel time.
About Peleg time in the Bible.
If you can find Greek history before 5,000 years ago, maybe you can prove it.

But checking Greek history is out of my ability.
Since I always see English translations that misunderstand Chinese history or culture.
Many important Chinese histories are not translated into English.
I think only local people can best understand their own history.

But I think we don't need history to prove it.
Modern Greeks can also prove Chinese medicine is correct.
Please check this guy's picture in this interview video at 12:20.
He is 104 years old and still looks young !

https://youtu.be/BIWibXSOfNg?si=GwYMgUoiDwpRcaB_

But there is a way to deal with the inequalities [changes] and be peaceful & honest.
What is the way?
My guess: scientific understanding × nonzero sum practices. — 180 Proof

Inequality is much like the concept of change, for the fact that it is guaranteed, a constant, and that is why greed exists, jealousy, hatred, envy, capitalism and colonialism. Equality is like the concept of perfection, totally unrealistic, but an ideal mark to shoot for, one which in fact will never be reached. — boagie

:up:

I know when Zhuang Zi talked about inequality, he also talked about 'Change'.
Also ChungZi this book is always study with 'I Ching' (philosophy of change) for thousand years.

But I don't quite understand how to think about 'inequality' with 'change'.
I only know Zhuang Zi teaches: don't against the trend of the change.
e.g. In a bull stock market, don't do short or be very careful when we do short.
or when things happen, accept that must many reasons made it happen. So just go with it, not let it stir our peaceful mind.

If I understood the allegory correctly, the physical deformities do not excuse the man's act of morality and responsibility to his own welfare and the community where possible. Further, the man is not expected to perform duties that one with his deformity could not do. Sounds fair to me. I am of the opinion that every person find some way to make themselves of use in this world, no matter their deficiencies. In addition, we as society should serve where we can with everyone included in the benefits, not just a few or those deemed worthy. — Philosophim

:up:

But I think we don't need history to prove it.
Modern Greeks can also prove Chinese medicine is correct.
Please check this guy's picture in this interview video at 12:20.
He is 104 years old and still looks young ! — YiRu Li

No. I'm not going to accept the example of one guy or even 100 guys. My grandfather lived to 98 and was healthy as a horse. He smoked two packets of cigarettes a day and drank half a bottle of gin a day. He died in his sleep, having had very few sick days in his life.

Would I argue that cigarettes and gin were the secret of his longevity?

I would need a mountain of good scientific evidence to accept any claims of alternative medicine.