Absolutely not possible that a computer program can be more important to a child's learning than the teacher. — Athena
I think that is the main concern for now, yes, the abuse of AI by nasty humans, rather than a justified fear of AI becoming totally self-aware and conscious, any time soon.I am not worried about AI being anti-human. I am worried about us being anti-human — Athena
universeness favors socialism and perhaps the two of you can agree on what it is and share that with me. — Athena
Well, here’s an idea… make a law that a candidate may delegate their votes to another party, if they themselves don’t win. They would have to be clear and upfront about it, of course. — 0 thru 9
I was pulling for Bernie Sanders, but I don’t think the country was ready for him, unfortunately. — 0 thru 9
There is no functional democracy in the United States. — Vera Mont
Yes, I agree. Well said. :clap:A representative and relatively uncorrupted democracy tends toward socialism, simply by the power of numbers: given the chance, most people want and would vote for what's good for them, until you end up with a government that acts in the interests of most people most of the time. This is why, in America, you get this sort of thing a tour de force in misdirection.
Too Much Democracy Is Killing Democracy
And of course, socialism cannot exist in a non-democratic society, regardless of the label it sticks on its facade. That's why so many autocratic regimes go through the charade of elections. — Vera Mont
It's a very modest proposition in the circumstances. And I doubt it's possible in the circumstances. No reform seems to be possible - until Premier Dumph abolishes the present form of government and stick all his detractors' heads on the spikes of the White House fence. — Vera Mont
Do you think. a system such as the Additional-member system, used to elect the government of Scotland, would be a big step forward, if it were used in America to elect its government? — universeness
I would of course, prefer to see someone like Bernie Sanders elected in the USA, but the American notion of what a socialist is, is certainly rather different to what I would call a socialist. Socialism is not well understood by most Americans I have ever spoken to about it, (which is not that many). Most seem to think its a one party, autocratic led, state dictatorship and their mindset, cannot separate it from China under Mao or Russia under Stalin. — universeness
If you are against us… prepare to be destroyed. :death:
(An odd conformist kind of individuality). — 0 thru 9
Hi everyone- I am listening to the public broadcast channel discussion of nuclear weapons and I am highly emotional right now. The best way I can think of to deal with this is to say I love humanity and I thank you all for coming to our discussion and working so hard on how to make our world a better place and hopefully, a safer place no longer threatened by wars. Kim just said we need the courage to fight for peace. Can we do that? — Athena
It sounds good as a fable... — Vera Mont
crediting civilization with something akin to volition and the ability to plan. I think it's more like a huge, mindless, parasitic fungus that is driven to replicate and grow, unaware of destroying its host. If it started evolving little brain-nodes that eventually connect up to a neural network, it could be controlled and directed by intelligence. — Vera Mont
it's more like a huge, mindless, parasitic fungus that is driven to replicate and grow, unaware of destroying its host. — Vera Mont
Only, you've already said what the action needs to be: connect up all the nodes. We're half-way there with the interweb; stick Universeness' AI in the center, acting as a global thalamus or relay junction, and you've got a fully functioning species-brain. I should imagine, as we, individual humans, are mostly harmless, because we can suppress our destructive impulses, the body sapient will be able to halt its destructive members.But there’s nothing to act on there, — 0 thru 9
Only, you've already said what the action needs to be: connect up all the nodes. We're half-way there with the interweb; stick Universeness' AI in the center, acting as a global thalamus or relay junction, and you've got a fully functioning species-brain. I should imagine, as we, individual humans, are mostly harmless, because we can suppress our destructive impulses, the body sapient will be able to halt its destructive members. — Vera Mont
Sometimes I admire ants and bees for their seemingly high-functioning societies. — 0 thru 9
A civilization closer to the one of our dreams is possible for all of us…
and exactly because of the efforts of all of us. — 0 thru 9
Is this a reference to all humans alive today?…Until our particular civilization, that is. — 0 thru 9
But firstly, I am unsure what you mean by:
…Until our particular civilization, that is.
— 0 thru 9
Is this a reference to all humans alive today? — universeness
Other cultures were more passive in a way, saying ‘here’s the best our cultural knowledge, do what you think best”.
If the member of this hypothetical culture rejected the ‘program’ from the get-go, or learned it thoroughly yet did something very unexpected with it, that wasn’t such a big deal.
It was all rather open, evolving, and experimental in a way, because no culture had a definite goal in mind… — 0 thru 9
Is this a reference to all humans alive today?
You seem to perceive a notion, of an already existent, significant commonality of cause and purpose, that exists today, amongst enough of the global human population of the Earth, to invoke the idea, that the foundations of a human global civilisation is already established or there is significant evidence that such is 'emerging'. Is that a true statement about what you are referring to, when the words 'Until our particular civilisation,' are connected with your last sentence, quoted above? — universeness
Your analysis of human attempts at 'civilisation,' was fun to read, and its ok as a brief summary of the human notion of 'civilisation,' as described through your own musings and findings, based on your own personal life experiences, your own learning and the main viewpoints you have on the current status quo, considered locally, nationally, internationally and globally. — universeness
What follows is a description of a possible intersection of our Culture and the Individual, especially when looking for a ‘monkey wrench’ so to speak (that gut feeling that something in our way of life is somewhat out of order).
(At least, this is how I see it… that is, an extremely simplified overview lol). — 0 thru 9
I love that argument!Our minds are among the most powerful things in the known universe. — 0 thru 9
Turn absolutely all the Earth into humans. This land is our land, for it belongs to us.
Who else is going to claim it? Squirrels? Giraffes? Honeybees? — 0 thru 9
But the pleasurable surge of power that was the reward for total domination didn’t need a college education to be experienced and enjoyed. — 0 thru 9
So our Civilization imprints each of its members with the ‘gameplan’ or the ‘program’. — 0 thru 9
Studies have demonstrated that a person will resist only so long doing something they consider wrong or useless, when given negative feedback like pain or disapproval.
We are not machines after all, though sometimes we desperately try to be. — 0 thru 9
But most likely, the foundational message will be remarkably similar: “go along with the civilizational program, and you will be rewarded!” — 0 thru 9
enhanced communication among the workers should certainly help us figure out what does work. Horizontal communication, not having the same big mouth at the top dictate what everyone should think. — Vera Mont
I think it's more like a huge, mindless, parasitic fungus that is driven to replicate and grow, unaware of destroying its host. — Vera Mont
’ve probably stretched the metaphor to its breaking point — 0 thru 9
The previous paragraph had a general depiction of other cultures previous to the one particular culture which about roughly 10,000 years ago began its transformation into our present day Worldwide Civilization — 0 thru 9
No culture seemed to have a definite purpose or goal …Until the emergence of our particular Civilization about 10,000 years ago. Our Civilization has the beginning, the middle, and the ending all mapped out for our convenience. It has the teachings, the means of production and implementation, and the goal. — 0 thru 9
There are earlier settlements, but an early city style human civilisation has a cut off population size, for it to be considered a 'civilisation.' — universeness
He, it seems, wanted to 'conquer the world' and impose the Macedonian/Greek notion of what civilisation was and create a human world that lived the way dictated by Alex and his cronies. — universeness
That's how I've been calling it, too, when I say civilization was where the human race went drastically wrong. But, in fact, the previous, low-density cultures were not quite so haphazard as you depict them here. Many were settled in one place, or migrated back and forth between winter and summer residences, had a mixed economy of hunting, fishing and farming, had complex language and folklore, advanced handicrafts, knowledge of their environment and resources and extensive networks of commerce and social interaction, alliances and treaties, as well as border disputes, with other tribes. — Vera Mont
I don't think he cared how anybody chose to live. What he set out to conquer were actually more sophisticated civilizations than the Macedonian backwater. I think he just wanted, first to outdo his old man and smash the ascendancy of Greece, then dominion and tribute. Lots of lovely loot during the conquest itself and lots more from vassal states thereafter. Plus his name all over everything - like other megalomaniacs we've known. — Vera Mont
the religious beliefs and family relations of vassal states were not regulated by the conqueror. Even the Roman policy was tolerant of other cultures until Constantine's conversion. — Vera Mont
I think this goal existed long before we invented gods to justify such. This is straight from our experiences of the rules of surviving in the wilds. Be the best predator in existence and destroy all competitors. The competitive capitalist is it's direct inheritor. That's our greatest shame, imo, that so many of us, have so far, been unable to stop acting like we are still in the wilds, living under raw Darwinian rules.I think, though I haven't researched it so can't be sure, that one-god, one church, everything else must be destroyed BS is the Christian influence. — Vera Mont
That really depends on so many factors. There are many bad teachers, impatient teachers, 'moody' teachers, authoritarian nutjobs, slightly psychotic teachers. — universeness
True democratic socialism has never been successfully implemented as a national governance, anywhere today or in history. Many attempts have been made but none have been successful so far.
To nurture people and not profit.
To prioritise cooperation and not competition.
To act as the political equivalent of secular humanism.
To control the means of production, distribution and exchange, for the benefit of all and not just elites.
To govern by the democratically obtained consent of all stakeholders, and to continuously consult the population you represent at all levels.
To govern openly and accept all established checks and balances. — universeness
What does 'be social' towards other people, mean to you?
I didn't cite early hunter-gatherers. I specifically referred to mixed economy cultures. They certainly had some reproductive regulation, but nature mostly prevented overpopulation; one severe winter could take a third of the tribe.These 'low population' early hunter gatherer communities you cite, did not have reproductive directives that prevented their group growing significantly in population size. — universeness
There was no evidence of this in North Amerca when the white settlers began to "tame" all that vast empty wilderness in which the native peoples were spread quite thinly.The land they occupied could become no longer tenable for their needs, for many reasons, — universeness
There was occasional expansion of territory and clashes between neighbouring tribes, but for the most part, nobody 'provided' anybody with land; the people moved about freely from summer to winter settlements or seasonal hunting grounds.A point is reached where they needed more than the land they were on provided.
Humans when faced with problems, especially existential ones, try to find a better solution. Hence such inventions as agriculture and farming etc and 'cities' and 'civilisations.' — universeness
Nothing, obviously. It happened.What are you suggesting could have been done, to prevent the nasty sides of human 'civilisation,' happening? — universeness
How could we maintain small bands of nomadic tribes, who were all able to feed, water, clothe and provide secure warm shelter for everyone in each group, without encroaching on each others territory or resources?
So our Civilization imprints each of its members with the ‘gameplan’ or the ‘program’.
— 0 thru 9
How is this imprinting done? Warning, the laboring class and the professional class raise their children differently. The laboring class is focused on obeying while the professional class will focus more on leadership roles. — Athena
For sure adversity can destroy the human spirit if that is all a growing child knows because then the growing child will be focused on avoiding pain rather than on improving his/her life. That means your next sentence is not true! Especially not females and people of color when reality marginalized them.
But most likely, the foundational message will be remarkably similar: “go along with the civilizational program, and you will be rewarded!”
— 0 thru 9 — Athena
Turn absolutely all the Earth into humans. This land is our land, for it belongs to us.
Who else is going to claim it? Squirrels? Giraffes? Honeybees?
— 0 thru 9
The cockroaches. — Athena
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.