I’m not at all certain. I make the choice not to dwell on the idea that we’re probably screwed. It’s useless and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. — Mikie

There's another option, though. If by "we" you mean the human race, it's most likely going to be fine. Climate volatility may take out the present world order. I think that's likely. But world orders come and go. We'll be back a few thousand years from now, and probably more capable than ever.

If by "we" you mean the present generation, again, we'll probably be fine. Our knowledge puts us in a position to know that we're saying goodbye to a world, while it's still here. This vibe, which dwells on the fragility of life, is like this:

Racism is as essential to capitalism as sexism is to patriarchy — unenlightened

I don't mean to nitpick, but unsustainability is to capitalism, as sexism is to patriarchy, as racism is to white imperialism...woe to the oppressed.

We're not fucked, the human race isn't fucked, so let's fuck the next xx generations. You're a sad case you know that?

Biden’s Climate Law Is Reshaping Private Investment in the United States

Private investment in clean energy projects like solar panels, hydrogen power and electric vehicles surged after President Biden signed an expansive climate bill into law last year, a development that shows how tax incentives and federal subsidies have helped reshape some consumer and corporate spending in the United States.

New data being released on Wednesday suggest the climate law and other parts of Mr. Biden’s economic agenda have helped speed the development of automotive supply chains in the American Southwest, buttressing traditional auto manufacturing centers in the industrial Midwest and the Southeast. The 2022 law, which passed with only Democratic support, aided factory investment in conservative bastions like Tennessee and the swing states of Michigan and Nevada. The law also helped underwrite a spending spree on electric cars and home solar panels in California, Arizona and Florida.

The data show that in the year since the climate law passed, spending on clean-energy technologies accounted for 4 percent of the nation’s total investment in structures, equipment and durable consumer goods — more than double the share from four years ago.

The law so far has failed to supercharge a key industry in the transition from fossil fuels that Mr. Biden is trying to accelerate: wind power. Domestic investment in wind production declined over the past year, despite the climate law’s hefty incentives for producers. And so far the law has not changed the trajectory of consumer spending on some energy-saving technologies like highly efficient heat pumps.

Worth noting.

We're not fucked, the human race isn't fucked, so let's fuck the next xx generations. You're a sad case you know that? — Benkei

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not surprised that you do. It's like you hate my guts or something.

I don't mean to nitpick, but unsustainability is to capitalism, as sexism is to patriarchy, as racism is to white imperialism...woe to the oppressed. — Merkwurdichliebe

What do you mean? Capitalism can't help but be unsustainable?

Nothing of the sort. I just think most of your posts in this thread are vapid and devoid of any semblance of a moral backbone. I've yet to discover a substantive post or anything respectable in this thread from you.

Thanks for the feedback. :up:

What do you mean? Capitalism can't help but be unsustainable? — frank

I was just correcting the correlation:

Racism is as essential to capitalism — unenlightened

And I don't believe capitalism is ultimately unsustainable. It is the only system we know of that is capable of producing novelty and innovating technologies that might be able to counteract the climate crisis. We can see how communism in ussr failed by stagnating in all production and innovation, and ccp was forced to betray its marxist principles by adopting Dengism in order to compete on the global stage. The only way Communism could only succeed in creating a sustainable world be by regressing civilization back into the stone age.

The only way Communism could only succeed in creating a sustainable world be by regressing civilization back into the stone age. — Merkwurdichliebe

Bronze age economies were kind of like communism. But yes, it's a world where nothing ever changes. There is no innovation.

Bronze age economies were kind of like communism. But yes, it's a world where nothing ever changes. There is no innovation. — frank

Even Dengism merely produces knockoffs of western innovations, but at least it is producing.

Thanks for the feedback. — frank

Got put in your place, huh? You are so lucky getting such constructive feedback. I'm jealous.

Well I'm single handedly changing the climate so it's similar to what they have on Venus, so taking a little flak is the least I can do.

Well I'm m single handedly changing the climate so it's similar to what they have in Venus, so taking a little flak is the least I can do. — frank

I'm sure you wouldn't catch so much heat if you would only speak as a malcontented little prick like the rest of the doomed apparatchiks.

I'm sure you wouldn't catch so much heat if you would only speak as a malcontented little prick like the rest of the doomed apparatchiks. — Merkwurdichliebe

:lol:

It is the only system we know of that is capable of producing novelty and innovating technologies that might be able to counteract the climate crisis. We can see how communism in ussr failed by stagnating in all production and innovation — Merkwurdichliebe

:rofl:

:lol: — frank

:rofl: — Mikie

Thank you very much, you have been a wonderful audience.

Yay!

You're welcome. Your parroting such stupid, simplistic ideas always gives me a chuckle.

I didn't see a thread yet, so I figured it's worth creating one.

Being in the middle of crushing heat waves, draughts, and floods all at the same time here in 2021, even those climate "skeptics" are saying we should probably do something -- just in case all the world's climatologists are correct.

[1&2]Is it already too late?

[1&2]If so, will we reach tipping points no matter what policies we enact?

[3]If it's not too late, what exactly can we do to contribute to mitigating it?

[6]Is there ANYONE out there who still doesn't consider this the issue of our time? — Mikie

I didn't realize you started this thread. :up: How long has it been since your original questions have been directly addressed? 2 years? Allow me.

1&2: I am optimistic, so... no. Human ingenuity has a solid historic record of creating solutions to its problems. There is no historical data on the degeneration of past civilizations, so we have zero reference on whether or not we have reached the tipping point. In fact, when we look at a more recent potentially world ending phenomena, nuclear warfare, humanity's solution has worked quite successfully so far. Because cooperation amongst competing powers in that case would seem much less likely than eventual cooperation in the case of environmental protection, there is even more reason to be optimistic.

3: it is all about cooperation that averages out into a better way of life for all. It starts with an open discourse about solutions that do not encroach on people's ways of life (except, perhaps, for the mega wealthy). The more that sustainability goals are perceived to diminish the quality of life for the average working man, the more incentive for resistance to sustainability goals.

6: yes. I guarantee you that Christians and Muslims alike are more concerned with eschatologicsl considerations of the human soul. And me. I still hold nuclear warfare to be a bigger issue. I also consider Covid a bigger issue, not the disease, but humanity's pathetic and cowardly response to it (such a species deserves to be wiped out by a climate apocalypse).

You're welcome. Your parroting such stupid, simplistic ideas always gives me a chuckle. — Mikie

I am happy to oblige. Perhaps you will oblige me. Who are the key pioneers on the notion of sustainability?

Yay — frank

Yay to you, you instigator :wink: :chin:

Who are the key pioneers on the notion of sustainability? — Merkwurdichliebe

Who is it?

Who is it? — frank

:lol:
That's what I'm asking @Mikie!

I still hold nuclear warfare to be a bigger issue. — Merkwurdichliebe

Your addressing the actual questions were more reasonable than I'd expect, and this part especially. I happen to agree.

Why then do you always seem to present yourself as an extreme right wing nut job? Is it just performance?

I know one guy. When Mikie has completed his answer.

I assume you'll say Paul Hawken or something like that, and then point out that he's a capitalist, etc. etc.

I'd point to people like Bill McKibben, Rachel Carson, etc. But you're asking for a reason, so let's not pretend you're interested in any answers. Just make your point.

In the US, it's George Vanderbilt. He started the world's first forestry school intended to teach loggers how to harvest wood sustainably. But he brought some guy from Germany over to teach. I guess it must have started there originally.

Why then do you always seem to present yourself as an extreme right wing nut job? Is it just performance? — Mikie

There are a few answers.

In a strong sense, it is performance, but that is not all due to my antics, there is an inherent art to philosophy that requires a certain quality of performance.

I have a rebellious philosophical nature, and I am compelled to reject whatever I perceive as status quo (for good or bad), and, as of late (as i perceive), many leftist policies have taken on the lame stench of the status quo.

Lastly, perhaps you have drifted so far to the left that you have been radicalized to the point that almost everything appears right-leaning to you. Perhaps not, i don't know you personally. No insult intended here.

Your addressing the actual questions were more reasonable than I'd expect, and this part especially. I happen to agree. — Mikie

Nice! It's kind of an honor to share common ground with the likes of you :wink: :grin:

Also, it is strategically wise to set up expectations...philosophical manipulation 101 :chin:

...But you're asking for a reason, so let's not pretend you're interested in any answers. Just make your point. — Mikie

Actually, the answers are exactly what I wanted. I actually haven't heard of any of the people you mentioned (researching them now).

But I was hoping amongst that listing you had mentioned the great Herbert Marcuse.

From the little I've gathered, Marcuse was a major influence on Paul Hawken. And regarding Marcuse, I heavily oppose many of the tenets that factor into his ideas on sustainability. However, I could envision a post-Marcusian version of sustainability that would lend to less radically divisive and tyrannical solutions.