Because not all party political systems are braindead or not working. But I guess you will not hear anything about it in your hate of political parties. — ssu

Again, you exaggerate. Hate is a very strong term that I would not choose to use against anyone who is a member of a political party or against a particular political party, merely because it exists. I would apply the term to extreme right wing members of political parties or towards such political parties just for existing. This hatred would be strongest against fascist political people or parties. So, there is some truth to your accusation but you do so exaggerate at times!

I'm not so sure if your insistence of banning political parties will do the trick. — ssu

Wow! I think I will quit while I seem to be ahead here ssu. That's the closest to common cause I think I am going to achieve with you/from you, in this exchange. You are at least giving me some hope that your view on maintaining the current party political national systems is not ossified and carved on stone tablets. :up:

I honestly don't see what, in the absence of money, they would be tempted to abuse. — Vera Mont

Are you rejecting out of hand, my earlier suggestion of:

I accept your important comment about the removal of money, as a driver for bad behaviour would help a lot, but as you yourself stated earlier,power addiction and/or individual aberrations in mental pathology/psychopathology, can also be drivers of bad behaviour. — universeness

Sometimes people do bad things just because they get a big thrill from 'getting away with it all.'

That reminds me of a song by the band 'James' that I used to have on repeat, when I came home pissed and alone from a good night out, feeling a tad melancholy. I am not sure if the words can be imagineered into the topics we are currently discussing on this thread but ...... what's an important exchange of ideas without a small musical break or two. :chin:

Sometimes people do bad things just because they get a big thrill from 'getting away with it all.' — universeness

That applies to the general population. Less, if there is a reasonable standard of living, no big disparities and liberal education with fewer bad influences on the young. I don't see it disproportionately affecting people who have voluntarily, without promise of material reward, opted to put their skills at service of society.

Thing is: when you change the underlying principles by which a society operates, you change everything: the dynamics, the opportunities, the relationships, the assumptions and motivations of the populace.

In a well-functioning society, you simply don't get so many malfunctioning people. The child who is aggressive or destructive or deceitful is spotted early by the day-care provider or elementary teacher, discussed with the parents, referred to appropriate counselling or given the appropriate medical care. An adult who exhibits antisocial behaviour is likewise noted and restrained from harming others or himself, with good luck, in time to forestall criminal acts, or with bad luck, arrested. We wouldn't wait till he killed 18 schoolchildren before we noticed that something is wrong.

So do I. But Americans simply have to understand that the present system can totally change, and actually quite quickly. The naive thing is to think that it's the Presidential election where you could have someone not being either a Democrat or a Republican that can change things. Nope, change starts from the communities and the states and also the federal level. And it's possible. — ssu

I hope I understand you correctly. Before things will change, we need to know there is another way. How many people do you think are aware of other ways of doing things than the way they have always done them. Maybe especially so in the US the belief that the way we do things is the best possible way so their minds are totally closed to knowing anything else is possible. Making matters worse is that increasingly people are feeling disenfranchised and they believe they are powerless to make things be as they think they should be. Their world is very small as they know only their own experience of life and in defense against rapid changes they have no power over, they intentionally isolate themselves or believe they are part of a political party and go along with their party without thinking.

I don't know what I think until I start writing. I am not sure but I think circumstances have us in a bad place right now. We need strong leaders who help us see there is a better way and that we can make a difference. There have been periods of rapid change in history and the unrest and uncertainty led to chaos until adjustments are made. Hum, :chin: a time or two civilizations have collapsed because they could not make necessary adjustments.

Much of the world, including the US, has its head so far up its own ass in denial, you have to wonder whether the species is viable at all. — Vera Mont

I can't believe you said that! :rofl: Well, yes, that is what I was thinking.

How many people do you think are aware of other ways of doing things than the way they have always done them. — Athena

More every day. There are lots of books out on alternative living; there are intentional communities based on a different principle; there is a tiny house movement, people learning to do things for themselves, eating local food, conserving water, pooling resources, teaching one another -- there's lots going on that you never hear about, because somebody doing something sensible is not as scary or tearjerky and therefore not as newsworthy as somebody deliberately running other people down with an SUV and buying fresh food at the farmers' market is not as emotionally cathartic as turning $15 worth of cut flowers into garbage on a sidewalk.*

(* It's a pet peeve of mine, all those bouquets, teddy bears and stupid mylar balloons piled up at the scene of every minor atrocity.)

Yes, I agree that we see some things quite differently. I think you assign some value to that which may be labelled mysticism, the transcendent, the numinous, the esoteric, the 'spiritual' or perhaps even the the theosophistic. — universeness

:brow: You say what?! How do we know truth? :chin: I think that might require the scientific process, but not all things can be processed scientifically because they are personal experiences and feelings. Then we have to rely on communication and reasoning. Our technological society is running very short on the ability or willingness to do that.

I am hoping, that understanding Daniel Kahneman's explanation of two different thinking modes will improve our ability to reason.

I am really curious about why you associate my writing with mysticism? For sure there are many things that mystify me but I don't think that is what you mean. As for numinous, I do enjoy spirituality but I do not think of myself as separate from spiritual reality. The spiritual feeling arises in me when I walk along the river or sit on the beach. As the ancient Greeks, I think beauty is very important to us and good music. I think we need to nurture our spiritual being because our mental and physical health depends on it. An evening of watching police and forensic shows is not my idea of a good way to take care of myself and I have come across the science that says so. :lol: Unlike Socrates, I do think I know a few things, but what I know is very little compared to what I do not know.

I am sorry Athena but I could not disagree with you more, on this important point.
Ignorant people, defined as 'people who have learned very little in their life,' are people who are manipulated and abused by vile notions such as 'sin.' This word is commonly defined as:
"an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law"

For all atheists, there is no divine law. It's existence is an utter lie and the best evidence for that, is divine hiddenness. In comparison with the crimes of god, as described in the bible or the crimes of characters like Mohammed as described in the Quran, I am totally sinless. I am convinced I am sinless anyway, as it is not possible to perform an immoral act considered to be a transgression against non-existent divine law. — universeness

Ah yes, but what is divine law? Is something bad because the gods say it is bad or do the gods say is bad because it is bad?

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Divine_law
Divine law is any body of law that is perceived as deriving from a transcendent source, such as the will of God or gods – in contrast to man-made law or to ...
‎Citations · ‎References[/quote]

It is not so because the gods make it so, it is so because of logos, and to know logos is to know science and even the gods had to surrender to logos. Now if you want to prove to yourself you can fly close to the sun with your wings made of wax and feathers, you can do so, but know this, the heat of the sun will melt the wax and you will fall to the earth and die. This is not because the gods make it so, but because that is the way the universe works. Nothing can rile me faster than denying the reality of universal law or equating universal law with the gods. That denial is to not know reality. Go ahead and fly into the sun and test it for yourself. No amount of praying or burning candles and chanting will change logos. It is what it is.

I try not to anthropomorphize nature in such ways, although I do fall into these old traps often.[/qhote] No, you do not. I am not saying what you think I have said. Thanks to Christianity everyone interprets what I say with the Christian belief in God and our power to control God with our pleas and efforts to please Him. You are interpreting what you think, not what I am saying. You put that false notion into my words, not me.
— universeness

Nature has no gender or sex. It is very important to understand the workings of our planet, for the sake of the survival of our species. We both agree on that I think. You just choose to invoke more 'esoteric,' anthropomorphised images to do so, compared to me.

Okay, you got on that one. I do love my relationship with the Mother Goddess. I am she, you know. Hum, I don't know what words to use to explain my pleasure of thinking in Mother Goddess terms, but I wonder if men get this wonderful feeling when they identify with a male God? However, you are right that I do not think of the Goddess as a manifest reality. I am strongly matriarchical, and when I speak of the Mother Goddess, I am thinking of values and my own identity. Historically she did not punish her children as the God of Abraham punishes his children. She also does not help them. She does her own thing and leaves her children to do our own thing, and if we eat poison, or destroy the planet, oh well, she isn't going to clean up the mess we make, so we darn well better figure how things work and do the right thing. That is very, very important to me, and blending what I think with superstition can make me a little hysterical! Failing to know truth and do things right can have very bad consequences.

More every day. There are lots of books out on alternative living; there are intentional communities based on a different principle; there is a tiny house movement, people learning to do things for themselves, eating local food, conserving water, pooling resources, teaching one another -- there's lots going on that you never hear about, because somebody doing something sensible is not as scary or tearjerky and therefore not as newsworthy as somebody deliberately running other people down with an SUV and buying fresh food at the farmers' market is not as emotionally cathartic as turning $15 worth of cut flowers into garbage on a sidewalk.*

(* It's a pet peeve of mine, all those bouquets, teddy bears and stupid mylar balloons piled up at the scene of every minor atrocity.) — Vera Mont

I really like what you said until the last thought. As I see it, those flowers, teddy bears, and balloons unite all of us. It is shared mourning and I am glad to be part of that. But I have rather odd notions. I enjoy feeling connected with the whole of humanity. I nurture this by learning as much as I can about history and the mothers around the world. Men, I think identify with their work, while traditionally women have identified as the caregivers. That is a kind of oneness that perhaps men do not share unless they do so as soldiers. The Veterans Administration takes care of its own and they have always done so. A few Roman generals made history by assuring those who fought with them were well cared for. While us women folk take action to assure all children are fed when they go to school. I think men are more willing to cough up the money for veterans but if it is women and children who need our help, that is socialism- a very bad thing.

Sorry, universeness got me hung up on wondering about how we identify with our gender. If I am off topic it is his fault. :wink:

Hum, culture is critical but who defines the culture? How does our gender and religion play into the culture?

Back to what you said, it gives me hope. There are as many good things happening as bad things, and maybe those bad things will pressure us to do more of the good things. :grin:

Ah yes, but what is divine law? Is something bad because the gods say it is bad or do the gods say is bad because it is bad? — Athena

I like that! Some things were seen as bad by the very first people who can be considered human - and many of the same things are considered bad by species much older than humans. They're considered bad because they harm individuals, families, communities, their relationship with other communities or their environment. When humans finally came up with the notion of supernatural entities - not gods, at the outset; they came later - they would naturally believe that those entities considered the same things bad that they did themselves. So a few laws come down from the canines, the lemurs, the apes and early humans through the spokesmen of gods.

But a whole lot of other laws put into the hands (it's always a scroll or tablet or wall with whatever writing the humans of that culture used - funny coincidence, that!) of the gods were about things that some of us knew were not wrong or harmful but the men in charge didn't like. And we've been living with these obvious lies for 6000 years, just because they were written next to some truths we needed.

I define a sin as an act that leaves a blot on one's soul. For soul, you can read character, spirit, atman, conscience, or whatever you like that corresponds to one's essential self. You know when you've committed a crime, a misdemeanour, a faux pas or a sin, just as you know what needs to be done to atone for each. Logic is great, but it doesn't replace self-awareness.

It is shared mourning and I am glad to be part of that. — Athena

Attending a candlelight vigil is shared mourning. A demonstration for better gun laws or a traffic light or control over rogue police is shared mourning. So are all those athletes dropping to one knee and wearing armbands. Putting flowers on a street unites nobody; it's an anonymous gesture, which doesn't require anything of the person making it but puts money in unconcerned pockets and it's a waste of resources.
That's a personal opinion, nothing more.

Men, I think identify with their work, while traditionally women have identified as the caregivers. That is a kind of oneness that perhaps men do not share unless they do so as soldiers. — Athena

That, too, may be changing (back to primitive times) with more women having meaningful careers and more young fathers bonding with their babies from birth onward.
The stratification of society has deformed us in so many ways that we're largely unaware of our unused dimensions and how a family unit ought to work.

. Before things will change, we need to know there is another way. How many people do you think are aware of other ways of doing things than the way they have always done them. — Athena

Few if any! And that's the worst part of it. Just look at the history: People really wanted change after the Bush years and got Obama. Then other people really wanted change and we got Trump.

When that "Third Party" comes that finally wrecks the duopoly in the American political system, you are very lucky if it's something you can support. But likely it's a disaster and the incompetence of these totally new people can be seen. But that's not the point: the real point is that when both Democrats and Republicans find themselves either in the opposition or working in a coalition government, then they have to change. In many countries with stagnant political systems, when new parties finally come and win elections, do reforms and then years later people decide to vote for the old parties. Because many times the old parties still have competent politicians if the party isn't totally tarnished and politically dead.

And democracies can make huge mistakes, don't think otherwise. But you can learn from mistakes. The best example is the UK and it's Brexit. Just ask the British how well that has gone or look how popular the UKIP is now there. Brexit was such a huge disaster for the UK that all the euro-sceptics in the EU countries have really toned down their criticism.

Logic is great, but it doesn't replace self-awareness. — Vera Mont

How can self-awareness be increased? I think this needs to go with the awareness of others too. Racism blows me away because it is such an expression of unawareness of the other human being.

Putting flowers on a street unites nobody; — Vera Mont

It makes me aware and includes me in the mourning even if it may not include you. I very much like the bicycle that is permanently on the corner where a bicyclist was killed. It keeps waking me up to the awareness of bicyclers and the need to be alert. And for the biker's loved ones, I am sure that memorial gives them comfort and that one life is not completely gone from our consciousness. I wish we would do more to remember the people worth remembering. At least one school memorialized a janitor who had been a part of the school for many years. I like that the memory of a janitor was honored.

Many truths in our lives are not shared truths because our individual experiences are not the same. Clearly how I experience life is not the same as others experience life. I think I have more of the forbidden spiritual experience. When I was young, during that time of the month, I would become hyper-sensitive, as though being extended beyond my physical form. I think there is a hormonal element to how we experience life.

And democracies can make huge mistakes, don't think otherwise. But you can learn from mistakes. The best example is the UK and it's Brexit. Just ask the British how well that has gone or look how popular the UKIP is now there. Brexit was such a huge disaster for the UK that all the euro-sceptics in the EU countries have really toned down their criticism. — ssu

I am sorry I am very aware of what happens in other countries. I do not any British people to ask about Brexit. I know US citizens are strongly opposed to one world government because they fear that would diminish their power to do as we do. Hum, that could make a delicious topic. Why is it so important that we have the freedom to do as want? What is gained if we give that up?

When it comes to learning from history the lesson that dominates my life is Hilter and the power of his charisma and how I see the same things happening in the US. The US adopted the German models of government and education for technology for military and industrial purposes and it is curious that we would imitate Germany and deny the changes in our culture, economics, and politics.

Every child learned of the American heroes and the American mythology that made us a united nation and a very moral nation. Today, Christians have taken credit for our democracy and we think God wants us to engage in wars against evil nations. And I have no idea what Trump and his followers think "Make America Great again" means. Without education for democracy, that is never going to happen and Trump is doing the same as Hitler did and his popularity keeps increasing as the legal battle with him continues. For sure Trump and his followers are in favor of isolating the US from the rest of the world.

How can self-awareness be increased? — Athena

In an adult, I suppose it must be internally motivated; I don't see how anyone can induce anyone else to examine their own thinking and assumptions. Unless they're referred by a court or marriage counsellor to some behaviour modification program.

In a child, it's the easiest thing in the world. We are an intensely self-preoccupied species: every baby is utterly absorbed in its own needs, sensations and perceptions. As the infant is socialized, as the toddler acquires language, its caregivers should pay attention and take an interest in what is being expressed, help the child articulate what it feels, what it thinks, how it reacts to things - and why. A little bit later, as its world expands, the child can be directed to regard others with the same attention. "What would you think in her place?" "What do you suppose the dog wants?" "Can you tell from his face how that little boy is feeling?" "Could you make up a story about this picture?"
What we mostly do instead is, "Mommy's busy, go play with your trucks." and "It's not polite to point." and "We don't talk about that kind of thing!" and "Don't play with those children!" "Because I said so." and worst of all, "God will punish you for thinking bad thoughts."
It's adults who discourage awareness in children, who close them off to ideas and insights.

I very much like the bicycle that is permanently on the corner where a bicyclist was killed. It keeps waking me up to the awareness of bicyclers and the need to be alert. — Athena

That's an excellent memorial!
Nor have I any objection to plaques or markers at the scene of a shooting or accident, or someone's picture displayed in the lobby, or their tools left in situ in remembrance. A neighbour put up a little wooden cross on the verge where his dog had been run over and I used to put one of my wreaths on it from time to time. (JD was a very nice dog; it was a personal tribute.)

Very different from wilting flowers and sodden teddy bears piled on a streetcorner to call attention to the death of someone who might have disliked teddybears for all we know and been allergic to flowers. And mylar balloons are an abomination in any context. I find such wasteful effusion distasteful, just I find the news reporters shoving microphones in the weeping face of a bereaved mother for public consumption. The display itself is a minor bugbear of mine, not an actual issue - it's merely symptomatic of the gluttony for impersonal emotionalism, which I think is an issue for serious consideration.

I know US citizens are strongly opposed to one world government because they fear that would diminish their power to do as we do. — Athena

All over the world!

Why is it so important that we have the freedom to do as want? — Athena

Because you are a or the major world power. Nobody likes to give up power. (see white supremacists... or nazis). Many individual Americans have no power at all and very little freedom of action, even while their "leaders" shout slogans about liberty. (Even while some of their financial elite were active collaborators with the Reich, just as they presently collaborate with undemocratic, repressive governments.)

However, the nations that are dominated, bullied, oppressed and intimidated by major powers would have a great deal to gain. It's all in the perspective.

Few if any! And that's the worst part of it. Just look at the history: People really wanted change after the Bush years and got Obama. Then other people really wanted change and we got Trump. — ssu

Ah, I got you. Wanting change and depending on someone else to change things, is like being a good Jew, Christian, or Muslim praying to God to fix things. In the 60s we said, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".

In many countries with stagnant political systems, when new parties finally come and win elections, do reforms and then years later people decide to vote for the old parties. Because many times the old parties still have competent politicians if the party isn't totally tarnished and politically dead. — ssu

:chin: The topic of this thread is culture because there are two ways of having social order, culture or authority over the people. To have liberty and a strong nation, we must rely on culture. Authority over the people is not democracy. So now what is it that political people need to know and what are they supposed to do?

Why is it so important that we have the freedom to do as want?
— Athena
Because you are a or the major world power. — Vera Mont

I believe that concept of power is a delusion because no group of humans no matter how create their numbers or their wealth and technology, that power is not the ultimate power. Above the gods and humanity is logos. Those who do not understand it correctly and live in harmony with it will eventually fail. Democracy is not rule by the powerful over the powerless. When correctly understood, democracy is rule by the people and for the people to rule successfully they must be well educated and capable of good moral judgment. Moral being a matter of cause and effect.

In history, Britain was able to exploit less advanced peoples, but Britain failed because they were thrown out of those countries. The US stepped in and tried to take the place of Britain and it is failing too. Let us hope this delusion and failure does not bring us to a nuclear world war.

impersonal emotionalism, — Vera Mont

That is a very interesting term. Is that mob rule? Being caught up in impersonal emotionalism. If it is impersonal, the individual is not responsible but caught up in the wave, no longer alone but part of the mass, as happened on January 6, 2021, when the US Capitol was attacked by Trump supporters. Those people who attacked the Capital were so happy to be a part of something bigger than themselves. I don't think any of them thought they could be held personally responsible.

That is exactly the mentality and emotionalism of the Nazis. Those tried for war crimes were shocked when they were held accountable for what they did. They thought of themselves as the good guys and part of something much bigger than themselves.

Your first quote above imo, should be used by Jamal to promote TPF.
Your second quote is is very well put, and makes me feel a little regretful that I just posted an attack on you personally :yikes: for your willingness to accept the use of the word 'sin ,' as an accusation against humans, ignorant or otherwise. :grimace::lol: /quote]— universeness

:lol: I am glad I read this. I hate it when I make an ass of myself and I have not always been as courageous and honest as you. I have been listening to a long explanation of better communication and you have practiced a principle of better communication.

As for not accepting my use of a word, I am constantly in a battle with Grammarly. It tries to correct me constantly and that feeds my concern that this technology is a huge evil! It can not think conceptually and when I want to speak of a concept like "industry" or "education" it wants me to use "the". Grammarly wants to turn all concepts into tangible nouns. The horror is, what that does to our thinking when we think everything is a tangible thing, rather than an intangible concept. :lol: I was once banned from a science forum for using the word "God". The moderator could not get past "God" being a being instead of a concept such as logos. It is not a false God until you add mythology to it. Whatever, a large part of our communication/thinking problem is our understanding of words and tendency to think everything is a tangible reality instead of a concept or metaphysical matter and Grammarly is part of the problem! — universeness

Universeness, look at what I found about language-

Though many people take language for granted, the reality is that the words we use say as much about the way that concepts are arranged within our brains as they do about the things they actually denote; they assign meaning to phenomena by picking out those attributes that seem most worthy of meaning to us. Subsequently, the fact that different languages use words to assign meanings in different ways has led to a long-running debate about whether humans naturally conceptualize the world in culturally relative – rather than universal – ways. — Ben Taub

I am very excited because it sort of explains how my understanding of words is not the same as everyone else's. In the private world of my head, thoughts are arranged differently.
This leads to a lot of arguing and frustration. Hopefully, by learning better communication skills I can overcome the problem. :lol: Maybe someday instead of feeling like I landed from Mars, I will feel like I belong here and have a valued point of view.

Above the gods and humanity is logos. — Athena

If you say so... But logos doesn't catch the bombs before they hit Baghdad! Or redirect American investment from oil to clean drinking water. Or inform Americans that their freedom to do whatever they want, whenever and wherever they want will eventually fail through lack of correct understanding. And that's why they value their individual freedom over any collective benefit.

That is a very interesting term. Is that mob rule? — Athena

No, not at all! It's an ersatz sharing through media exposure and public display, to fill the void left by the lack of genuine connection with other people, which we crave, but have lost through suspicion and fear. I was talking about the overblown grief at the sites of tragedies.
The mob you're talking about was actually a poorly organized army. It was mustard, called up and deliberately and goaded into a specific action, after having been stoked, over generations, with resentment at fictional grievances and imaginary threats. That "rage" of the no-longer-privileged has been carefully nurtured by a succession of political and religious manipulators, continuously since 1865.

Maybe someday instead of feeling like I landed from Mars, I will feel like I belong here and have a valued point of view. — Athena

If panspermia is prove true then perhaps we all come from Mars. I can confirm that you do have valuable points of view. I think it's just that many many words are very over-burdened. Many words are also considered as 'strictly belonging to,' a particular umbrella subject. Spirituality is one of those words that is traditionally associated with theism or theosophism. Even though the etymology of 'spirit' is, 'breath'.
To be spiritual originally meant, to be alive, to breath and be animated. It had nothing to do with ghosts or gods.

If you say so... But logos doesn't catch the bombs before they hit Baghdad! — Vera Mont

You are right. Logos is the laws of nature that can not be violated without bad consequences.

And that's why they value their individual freedom over any collective benefit. — Vera Mont

That is nuts! :rage: I am unsure of what you mean to communicate but I put that problem squarely on Christianity and believing in a god that can violate the laws of nature and be controlled by human behaviors such as reacting to human rights and wrongs. We are so vain, deluded, and ignorant. That is not logos, the laws of the universe.

Abstract. Plato regards education as a means to achieve justice, both individual justice and social justice. According to Plato, individual justice can be obtained when each individual develops his or her ability to the fullest. In this sense, justice means excellence.

"Plato's philosophy of education: Its implication for current ... — Myungjoon Lee

Education in the US was based on an understanding of logos and what men like Plato and Cicero said, not the Bible or German philosophy. It is not Christianity that made America great, but the ancient world and those who came to us from the past.

That "rage" of the no-longer-privileged has been carefully nurtured by a succession of political and religious manipulators, continuously since 1865. — Vera Mont

That is agreeable but not the whole story. The story is not complete without awareness of the harm done by well-meaning Christians who believe it is them and their god that made the US great and their interference with education as they worship a god who has favorites and blesses his favorites with slaves and wealth. It is an old problem starting with Judaism and a god telling them they can not be slaves because of their special relationship with Him, but they can owe someone their labor for 7 years and they can own slaves for life and their children will inherit them. This just gets their head in the wrong mindset and instead of acknowledging the wrong of such a belief, they use denial and counter statements such as we are all God's children. Rationalizing away much of what the Bible actually says.

If panspermia is prove true then perhaps we all come from Mars. I can confirm that you do have valuable points of view. I think it's just that many many words are very over-burdened. Many words are also considered as 'strictly belonging to,' a particular umbrella subject. Spirituality is one of those words that is traditionally associated with theism or theosophism. Even though the etymology of 'spirit' is, 'breath'.
To be spiritual originally meant, to be alive, to breath and be animated. It had nothing to do with ghosts or gods. — universeness

Yeah! :grin: What you said is so agreeable to me. I remember spiritual concepts such as "He is in good spirits today". Meaning the man was happy. Sometimes the happiness was related to drinking spirits meaning he got drunk.

The Spirit of America and the Spirit of the West are portrayed as women leading the way forward. These are not beings but representations of concepts.

When I realized there is no Santa Claus I was unhappy with my mother for lying to me. She explained Christmas is a spirit, a feeling we have and it is real. For me being spiritual is about a feeling. We can nurture positive or negative feelings and happy or unhappy thoughts. That is actively being spiritual.

And that's why they [Americans, as per your earlier post] value their individual freedom over any collective benefit. — Vera Mont

That is nuts! :rage: I am unsure of what you mean to communicate — Athena

See US gun lobby/ gun laws/ mass shootings. See Munroe Doctrine. See the unending wrangle over health insurance. The argument against doing what's good for most people is: "Freeeedomm!!!!"

that problem squarely on Christianity and believing in a god that can violate the laws of nature and be controlled by human behaviors such as reacting to human rights and wrongs. — Athena

And the US is a christian country, formed and constituted and ruled in the Abrahamic tradition of might makes right. Plato did not sign the Declaration of Independence.

I liked James song. Last night I saw a show about ethnicity and how rape music gives these victims a voice. James is a good counter to that. Like being all messed up is part of life.

Like oh my God, I am White and I am all messed up and there is no one for me to blame for this. Well, I am female. I suppose I can blame men for oppressing me but now that women are "liberated" who can we blame?

Back to the topic of this thread- we need a culture that resolves more problems than it creates but when people want to maintain ethnic differences how can we achieve a culture that unites us? Boo hoo hoo, those ugly white people took me from my alcoholic mother and cared for me and put me in a White school where I was treat treated like one of them because they hatefully won't let me have the culture of alcoholism, rape, stealing, and self-pity. Help me with this. I am angry about all the divineness and victim mentality and the lack of identity with a multi-ethnic democracy and united effort to raise the human potential.

Boo hoo hoo, those ugly white people took me from my alcoholic mother and cared for me and put me in a White school where I was treat treated like one of them because they hatefully won't let me have the culture of alcoholism, rape, stealing, and self-pity. — Athena

a...hem...That view is hugely conducive to

a culture that resolves more problems than it creates — Athena

I am sorry I do not know what you mean.

I am sorry I do not know what you mean. — Athena

So am I! Profoundly.