At the folk-biological level, yes. At the molecular biological level? No. Not even close. We're all so very different, and don't know enough about our biology to even begin to parse something as complicated as a gender identity or a gender role. — Moliere
We refer to genetics, to body functions, or even just descriptions of the body. — Moliere
We don't mean that though. We mean "Woman" and "Man". We're not referencing studies about hormone concentration effects on bone density. To be a man is not to have the right chromosomes. In fact, many people who have the right chromosomes are often denigrated as not being real men. Masculinity refers to the penis, but the performance is in defeating someone else -- or at least trying and accepting the outcome if you lose. Like a man — Moliere
I'd submit that gender dysphoria is exactly the opposite of the way you characterize it here. The person believes their appearance is not who they are and they try to alter their appearance to match their internal view of who they are. — Hanover
If you want to say the act is the transsexualism, then we can wipe out a good amount of transsexualism with some makeup remover. — Hanover
We have gender roles and we have biology. The two are distinct — frank
My point is this: providing gender neutral accommodations--toilets, locker rooms, and so on is not a trivial expense, and the number of beneficiaries doesn't justify the required spending, especially when we have not met all the very definite needs of 60 million disabled Americans. — BC
Some of those distinctions are arguably worth preserving, like perhaps the locker room or sports teams examples. — Hanover
That's just not true. What's recent is the general acceptance of socially recognized female traits to biological males in Western society. That's what this change is about. — Hanover
It's ridiculous to frame this discussion as a fight between trans and disabled folk. — Banno
There's even a paragraph for you, Hanover, explaining who your simplistic xx and xy "solution" ignores. — Banno
This is not about chromosomes or genitalia or societal expectations; but it is about urinals and stalls and keeping people safe. — Banno
The relationship between biological description and man/woman designations is not so easy as I once thought — Moliere
It ignores Aneuploidy; but that's not so important. The problem is in part the insistence on "As aren't Bs aren't Cs aren't Ds", the failure to account for real discrepancies in how we categorise stuff, on understanding necessity and kinds and how sometimes it's a family resemblance. But mostly, it's about misunderstanding what is at issue.It ignores no one. — Hanover
the failure to account for real discrepancies in how we categorise stuff, on understanding necessity and kinds and how sometimes it's a family resemblance. — Banno
Has anyone, with two X chromosomes and no Y, spoken up in this thread? — wonderer1
According to the evidence here presented, it's someone who can be discussed, argued-over, judged, categorized and decided-about in her presence, as if she were inanimate. — Vera Mont
Well it's philosophy, isn't it? — Tom Storm
What is rigid about it? Asking for evidence of a threat? Defining transphobia the way I have? You're putting forward a list of criticisms without specifying what you're talking about or engaging substantively. I am able to defend my position, so if you could please quote where my reasoning is faulty in your view, — Baden
The focus of this debate should be how to protect trans people from discrimination, bigotry, and violence concerning their use of bathrooms and definitely not on falsely stigmatising one of our most vulnerable minority groups as a "danger" or "threat".
— Baden
No. The focus of the debate should be on figuring out how to help transgender men and women become valued members of our communities without having to pretend they're something they're not. — T Clark
I think your post is a good summary of the issue. I'm not someone who cares much about sports, but I do care about fairness. From what I've read, biological males who compete as women in mixed martial arts consistently beat the crap out of biological females, sometimes causing serious injury. That's not fair. — T Clark
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