If you want people to take you seriously here, you'll need to take the strawmanning down several notches. — Tzeentch
It's not a matter of agency. It's a matter of power, which they have comparatively little. It's unfortunate, but that's the way the world works. — Tzeentch
The criticism of the U.S. is fair on many levels but it often becomes too U.S centric in itself. — Paine
the following paragraph points to an element studiously avoided in Mearsheimer's argument: — Paine
the merit of Lough's approach is that he considers developments between Europeans left out of the U.S. centric narratives. — Paine
How is my comment an example of the strawman argument? — Paine
You say that neither possibility involve choices they are making for themselves. — Paine
It doesn't get more imperial than that. — Paine
I am still curious if you have a particular objection to Lough's actual argument. — Paine
I am still curious if you have a particular objection to Lough's actual argument. — Paine
Gorbachev neither asked for nor was given any formal guarantees that there would be no further expansion of NATO beyond the territory of a united Germany.
while the Russian Federation became the de facto legal successor to the USSR after the latter’s collapse, Russia existed in different borders and its security interests were not synonymous with those of the USSR.
For me, the most cogent challenges to his view come from writers Jan Smoleńsk and Jan Dutkiewicz. — Paine
After the breakup of the Soviet Union, Ukraine several times attempted to assert and defend its westward course, including in 2004 and in 2014, both times to great resistance on the part of the Kremlin. There is no point in denying that the West actively intervened in this. But so did Russia. — Jan Smoleńsk and Jan Dutkiewicz
Given that the only combatants on the ground are Russian invaders and Ukrainian defenders, the implication that this is a battle between the U.S. and Russia over influence is ridiculous. — Jan Smoleńsk and Jan Dutkiewicz
Say, is Russia doomed to destruction, can't go on, without Crimea being a part of Russia? — jorndoe
The sample did not include residents of territories that were not temporarily controlled by the authorities of Ukraine until February 24, 2022 (AR of Crimea, the city of Sevastopol, certain districts of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts)
Somehow I doubt one could do a poll in Donetsk right now. — Olivier5
Can you explain the long term consequences of this war? — frank
Well, we are still replying to each other. So that should tell something. — ssu
Likely for you the issue is so distant that it's some kind of LARPin game. And of course, the war might be something that absolutely doesn't affect your life.We could pretend to be experts, analysing the data as if we knew better than those who've already done that work...but short of a ego-stroking LARPing game I don't much see the point. — Isaac
I think the problem is that you make a juxtaposition between pro-American and anti-American. And there's not anything else.
You simply don't see that Nordic or Eastern European people would (or could) have ideas of their own in this case. And to simply forget the role of the Ukrainians in this war is, well, condescending. Because this war is a matter especially between Ukrainians and Russians, not the West Europeans and the Americans. — ssu
If you think "the proletariat" in these countries are so high on the opium of media agendas, I would beg to differ.Yes. I'm ignoring (largely) the role of the Nordic countries, the Eastern European nations and the Ukrainians. Not because they don't have a role, but because it's not radically different to the US's. Big industry lobbyists push political agendas which serve their interests. they do so in the US, Europe, Sweden and Ukraine. Influence over media agendas manipulates a proletariat, the support of which is then used to justify the original objective. There's little point in discussing which flag they operate under, especially considering most are multi-national companies. — Isaac
Sorry, but we aren't as post-nationalist / post-nation state as you think (or hope) we are. Try not to think of other people as being like you. (And weren't you from the UK? Didn't you have Brexit some time ago?)The notion of independent nation states with their own culture and unique objectives belongs to a colonial era of World Wars and imperialism. — Isaac
asking us to believe that despite (2) being true, (1) just happened anyway, by chance — Isaac
our position is very clear: Infineon condemns the Russian aggression against Ukraine. It is a blatant violation of international law and an attack on the values of humanity. [...] apart from the direct business it proves difficult to control consecutive sales throughout the entire lifetime of a product. Nevertheless, we instruct our customers including distributors to only conduct consecutive sales in line with applicable rules. — Gregor Rodehüser (Infineon)
While reading ...
Exclusive: The global supply trail that leads to Russia’s killer drones (via MSN)
— Stephen Grey, Maurice Tamman, Maria Zholobova · Reuters · Dec 15, 2022
I was vaguely reminded of ... — Dec 15, 2022
Stop funding Russia’s nuclear weapons
— Henry Sokolski; The Hill; Nov 13, 2022 — Nov 14, 2022
Florida, Hong Kong, in addition to US/EU funds going to Rosatom, ..., the plot thickens. — Dec 15, 2022
If you think "the proletariat" in these countries are so high on the opium of media agendas, I would beg to differ. — ssu
First and foremost, on a thread about the war in Ukraine to ignore the Ukrainians is something I would think being an mistake as they themselves surprised the West ...and of course Putin too.
Then for example the change in Sweden and Finland, where any discussion of joining NATO wasn't going anywhere before, suddenly a huge reversal from a small minority to a huge majority happened basically overnight left the politicians to desperately to change their stances and react. (For example after 24th February our social democrat prime minister first proposed that NATO membership should be discussed in the social democrat party meeting in the summer, then had to backtrack and had to start immediate negotiations with her party's members of Parliament and with other parties.)
Or then we could go and discuss just how unprepared the "military-industrial complex" was with the events. Prime example would be Germany, with it's huge problems in rearming even if it wanted to do it. — ssu
if you ignore all above and other issues just because "their role isn't radically different to the US", then that just doesn't give an accurate answers to what is happening.
But I guess that doesn't interest you, because it seems to be the typical tankist view. And all other talk is just pro-US propaganda. — ssu
Sorry, but we aren't as post-nationalist / post-nation state as you think (or hope) we are. — ssu
Unsurprisingly, in Europe and America both the far-right and the far-left are Putin's closest allies. — SophistiCat
Unsurprisingly, in Europe and America both the far-right and the far-left are Putin's closest allies. — SophistiCat
Hilarious argument. And quite high a pedestal you again put experts. And especially we are talking of here and now and the future, not 19th Century history, where indeed an expert (called a historian) could show his expertise on domestic politics of various countries. But this isn't a discussion of history.Experts disagree. If experts disagree, you are not qualified to determine which experts are right and which are wrong, you can only choose which you believe. — Isaac
Start with sanctions. Start with how Western Corporations have withdrawn from Russia, for starters. It's a bit backwards (but typical from you) to assume a war started by Putin and a small cabal around him, has actually happened because of the Western military industrial complex. An industry, which actually isn't at all developed to arm this kind of conventional war and basically has, just as the American political elite, focused on China.Go on. In what way does the power of the nation state over-rule that of the corporation? — Isaac
Unwavering support for the US? Lol.When was the last post in which you registered anything but unwavering support for the US? — Isaac
Well, you're ignoring a lot. Really, ignoring Ukrainians in a discussion about war in Ukraine is a bit hilarious. :smirk:I can't think of a single post. So you are ignoring US-issues (relating to Ukraine). — Isaac
Listen actually to what they say and notice how their world view is actually very close, especially when they depict what they are against. It's not an accident that it was national socialism that was the most ugly combination of an ideology.Yeah, fascists and tankies often make cozy bedfellows, even as they try to make bogeymen out of each other. — SophistiCat
Actually in the 1990's the "extreme left" and "extreme right" in Russian politics was the other way around than here.In the post-Soviet Russia the relationships between various flavors of communist/socialist and far-right nationalist/neo-fascist groups have been so incestuous that they are sometimes collectively referred to as the Red-Browns (after brownshirts). Unsurprisingly, in Europe and America both the far-right and the far-left are Putin's closest allies. — SophistiCat
Well, it all starts with having the largest conventional war since WW2 in Europe being forbidden to be called as a war, but having to be called a "special military operation".Which makes all this "denazification" rhetoric all the more insane on its face. Timothy Snyder characterizes Putin's regime as schizo-fascism. — SophistiCat
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.