Then obviously you have an incorrect idea of what is to be a sovereign state. There's an interconnected web of international laws, agreements and international cooperation that limits the sovereignty of the individual state. That simply is the reality in the modern World. And as clearly seen with Brexit, EU has it's advantages just why so many countries have chosen to stick together.I never said they were similar. I said one shouldn't harbor illusions about Ukraine being a sovereign, independent state if it enters the EU or NATO, like none of the member states of those institutions are. — Tzeentch
When Bush invaded Iraq, many NATO countries starting with France and Germany didn't participate.They are not. When the US says jump, they jump. They have no choice. — Tzeentch
But it's telling about the whole effort. A war that came as a surprise to many in the administration. A mobilization that has mobilized more young men to leave Russia than were put into the army to be stop-gap cannon fodder. A war that sometimes resembles WW1 fought with drones.Though to be expected I guess, I'd find the re-culturation/indoctrination attempts a bit ... embarrassing when exposed. — jorndoe
Just keep supporting Ukraine as they did in spring. Keep on track, stay focused.It's more doubtful what they can effectively do, though.
What could they do?
(Limit Putin's vacation spots some?) — jorndoe
It doesn't really matter, since if the new status quo doesn't in some way satisfy the Russians, it's going to lead to war again sooner or later. — Tzeentch
It's a fairly simple language and has many root words in common with English, because the last invasion of the French was never repelled. — unenlightened
That countries have voluntarily chosen to join these institutions makes it different. — ssu
When Bush invaded Iraq, many NATO countries starting with France and Germany didn't participate.
When Obama wanted to attack Syria, his NATO allies said no. — ssu
For this reason, I predict Ukraine will join the EU but not NATO. Russia cannot possibly use nukes just to stop a nation from freely joining a trade group like the EU, but moves towards NATO membership could possibly trigger a nuclear response. — Olivier5
Why would it all of a sudden illicit a reaction even worse than conventional war if it wasn't the reason for war in the first place? — Benkei
It wasn't the reason for this war because Ukraine had zero chance of joining NATO before Feb 2022. — Olivier5
They were a NATO/US ally in all but name. — Tzeentch
I think it should be obvious to all those present here why we supported and eventually agreed to the recognition and admission of Donetsk, Luhansk, and then two more territories into the Russian Federation. Look at these young women. How does [meeting participant] Fedorova, who lives in the Lugansk Republic, differ from other Fedorovs [common Russian surname] somewhere in Novosibirsk, St. Petersburg or Moscow? Nothing. These are our people. — Putin
why they and their supporters wank on nukes so much: it's a form of porn, designed to give back a sense of power to the impotent. — Olivier5
The risk of Ukraine joining NATO was what caused the current war — Benkei
Russia sure are touchy about names. — Isaac
Here is what one man wrote [to] me, someone by the name of Victor Rozumovsky: “Maybe it’s time to stop presenting lies as the truth. Stop deceiving people. Rational thinking people no longer believe any of this.” You know what Victor? If you are in Russia, we are going to find you. We will find out everything about you. You won’t know a moment’s peace. — Vladimir Solovyov
NATO's door is open. Russia does not have a veto. — Stoltenberg
If, as Stoltenberg hinted, NATO supplies the Kyiv fanatics with Patriot complexes along with NATO personnel, they will immediately become a legitimate target of our armed forces. I hope the Atlantic impotents understand this. — Medvedev
These are our people — Putin
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